Don't tell me what I can't do: How a conservation nonprofit built Burlington River Days | Episode 92

Chris Lee: Great parks and healthy landscapes are the products of strong leadership. This show is dedicated to helping you become that leader. This is the Parks and Restoration podcast. We're on a mission to help you leave a legacy of healthy ecosystems, quality parks, and future generations of people who care about the natural world. Find show notes, links, and other information on our website, parksandrestoration.com. And now, let's get to today's episode. Welcome everyone to another episode of the Restoration podcast I am Chris Lee your host and if you're watching this on video you're gonna notice this is a very different setup than what I'm used to I am in kind of a podcast studio of sorts ⁓ We got a like a full-on professional podcast setup. Well anyway ⁓ I'm here with with Chris Graham. He's my partner in crime and a lot of things we're gonna talk about some fun stuff, but ⁓

Chris Gram: Parks.

Chris Lee: Chris is the executive director of the Greater Burlington Convention and Visitors Bureau. It's the tourism arm of the Greater Burlington Partnership here in Burlington, Iowa, where I'm from. And he and I work on a lot of different things together. What I want to talk about most today is Burlington River Days. But before we get to that, Chris, welcome to the show.

Chris Gram: Thank you very much. the way, got the title correctly. I host my own podcast or co-host one with a co-worker and she did not get it correctly. And she works with me, so kudos.

Chris Lee: Yeah, although we'd probably spend more time together.

Chris Gram: Fair enough. was Amy Moyner for all those paying attention and she deserves all the grief she gets.

Chris Lee: Yeah, absolutely. Although I think she's leaving right now to go collect some awards. There's not so much.

Chris Gram: Yeah, no less. We don't need to give her any more shine than she gets.

Chris Lee: Right. All right. So ⁓ my last episode was all about ⁓ Foundations so like like friends groups foundations. I talked to Hannah Inman from the great outdoors foundation Okay, and that organization went from selling firewood in Jester Park up in Polk County ⁓ to this now 250 million dollar organization that they've turned into and their their rise to Super stardom has been within the last 10 years

Chris Gram: They're selling firewood for 250.

Chris Lee: Okay, right. Yeah, that's a hell of a firewood operation. It's Really really big firewood they do a lot of fires up there but ⁓ so I've got I've got nonprofits and foundations on my mind and Down here. We do a thing through the partners for conservation foundation So this is the foundation that supports my organization to win County conservation that I'm the executive director for but then a lot of other things too It's not just our support foundation. They support a lot of things, but they are kind of on this

Chris Gram: Yeah. Really big firewood.

Chris Lee: this cusp of a big rise too and one of the things that they're doing is this Burlington River days and I shouldn't say they it's kind of we actually yeah yeah well actually a lot now it's a few

Chris Gram: It's a lot of folks. No Small group of committed individuals, how about that? Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Lee: So for some background, Burlington River Days is a three day riverfront festival down on the riverfront of Burlington, Iowa. ⁓ it's got concerts, it's got a barbecue competition. It's got a boat parade, ⁓ down our main Jefferson street, our main corridor through our, through our downtown. ⁓ got a lot of cool things. You've got river days Olympics that we bring in all these nonprofit organizations, fitness forever, ducks and limited things like that. And they do these little challenges and you win medals. It's just a big, fun thing. And then we put these bands up on stage each night. And this year. we have a Hinder as headlining Saturday night, which ⁓ if anybody was alive in 2006, you know who Hinder is. They do that song, Whips of an Angel, and a bunch of others, and they're gonna be on the stage down here. And this is all a fundraiser for conservation, which is the crazy thing.

Chris Gram: I love how sneaky that is, the way. Right? Because people who love Hinder or like a good live concert, like, know, entertainment out on the riverfront, they're coming down to have a fun time and they have no idea what they're benefiting.

Chris Lee: Yeah, I mean on the website we call it concerts for car. Yeah concerts for conservation. Yeah, but nobody nobody really cares They're just they're coming down to the concert. That's right. So I guess let's let's walk through how this how this thing came to be and And why in the world would a conservation organization? Host a riverfront festival for for the love of God like like why and so I can dig into that But I want to write I want to riff with you a little bit about how this how this thing came to be

Chris Gram: Okay, so now we have to pretend like each other we don't know and we're telling each other. Sure, Yeah, yeah. No, no, I get it. That's true. That's true. I have to pretend that there is an invisible third person here.

Chris Lee: So we're telling the world. Right, yeah, explain my millions of dedicated followers. There you go. Yeah, minus a bunch of zeros.

Chris Gram: As strange as it may sound, it started with catfishing because there is a catfish tournament ⁓ that comes to Burlington or has come to Burlington the last couple of years and we hope that, you know, continues and continues to grow. And we're always looking for a way to grow that event, plus up that event and make it more ⁓ inviting for the community and engaging for the community. And so I recall you and I were just kind of brainstorming about that. And, you know, what can we add to that event? But I think simultaneously or very near to that, had this kind of just brain spark, you know, whatever you want to call it. You really wanted to race boats on the Mississippi. You see, it would be fun. If we could rip somebody's John Boater fishing boat up and down on the Mississippi and race them from bridge to bridge, that'd be a lot of fun.

Chris Lee: Yeah, yeah, so that idea is spurred from one of my good buddies John Mercer. He's actually the the chair of our conservation foundation Yeah, and he's a friend of mine and fellow River rat we go on the river together all the time throughout the summer and he's got a place down and the Ozarks down at Lake Ozarks and so they do the boat races down there and and you know, we were we're out on the sandbar one day and there may have been some some drinks going around come on now and You know, we were like man, how cool would it be to like do boat races here? not like the super fast crazy boats but like yeah that'd be fun too and you know absolutely we'll throw a few of those in sure you know because we got to do that but wouldn't it be fun to just like whatever boat people have right there there's 16 foot 1972 alumacraft with their their you know 1976 uh johnson evan evan rood on the back of it with you know the smokes when it starts and uh and and just you know put up

Chris Gram: dangerous and yeah

Chris Lee: the river in between the two bridges. got a train bridge on the of the south side of our downtown and then our main highway bridge like right the kind of north edge of our downtown. And ⁓ that idea was percolating in my brain and then we got to talking about well maybe not that but what if we did something on the river?

Chris Gram: Yeah, well one it should be said though that I'm constantly looking at through through the lens of tourism when I when I think of things or hear things and so That didn't sound like a bad idea to me. I liked the idea of boat races and I have not given up on that That got put in the hopper and tossed around a little bit and we thought okay Maybe not so much and then we started thinking about insurance and then we really thought maybe not so much. Yeah It kind of spurred the idea or the thought of okay. Well, what else could there be and I'm not sure when Matt

Chris Lee: No, I haven't either. Yeah, but

Chris Gram: Brown got folded into this. It was pretty close to that wasn't there? think didn't we yeah because I should back up ⁓ this catfish tournament happens around, early fall and coincidentally BRE Burlington Riverfront Entertainment with Matt Brown as the executive director They ⁓ do an event every year did an event every year called Heritage Days Yeah involved in a carnival and some fun, you know family activities and some bands and We tried to partner this catfish tournament with that last year or two years ago with moderate success There was room to kind of improve So I think we went to Matt to talk about what else we could do to kind of plus up heritage days and make this a bigger thing. And that's when Matt told us.

Chris Lee: Yeah, he said, we've already got the stage and the carnival booked. Why don't we just rebrand that entire event and just run with a whole new giant monstrosity of an event?

Chris Gram: But he said we're well we're killing heritage days That thing that you were trying to plus up for September. Yeah, that's away. We're gonna wait So you're going the opposite direction, right?

Chris Lee: Yeah. Okay, yeah, so he's running a ray from the brand of Heritage Days and then we come in and sometimes, know, and thinking about this now, sometimes I think the universe just smiles on you. Yeah. You know, because so here's he's in a position like I've got this event, it's kind of floundering a little bit, I need to do something and then here we walk in, we're like, hey, we want to do something to plus up and you know, kind of make a big splash in the community and it's sometimes I think the universe just puts the same people in the room together and all of a sudden. You're like, ⁓ my God, here we go.

Chris Gram: Change is almost always a good thing, but I will say this you know for behind the scenes because I don't think I've said this before I do recall that meaning distinctly and we were in Matt's house I know where I was sitting and while this idea evolved and I go well if it's not gonna happen this September could we do something in June and Target around this area and then it would grow and there's this like avalanche of you know Snowball rolling downhill of great ideas, and I was in the room going yep, but September I still need to plus up this event anyway, but yes, yeah

Chris Lee: So the long short of it is we ended up walking away from the September idea Yeah, and you just did something completely separate with the catfish tournament. Yeah. Yeah, and and so we ⁓ We didn't we didn't call it River days at times. So I think then we're like, okay, let's let's do something in June. but this was like This was not very far before June. We were having these conversations. This was in the winter. I think it was

Chris Gram: Yeah, they I don't recall if it was November December, but it was yeah. No. Yeah

Chris Lee: And so we're like, ⁓ yeah, we're gonna do this. They're gonna do this thing in June. ⁓ so we're like, we should probably get some people in the room. And ⁓ I called John, who I was originally talking to about boat races. I'm like, hey, what if we did this River Days thing, or this big festival on riverfront? And he's like, yeah, sure, I'm in, I'll join the committee. And then he invited a friend of his, and we ended up with like five or six people in the room.

Chris Gram: Yeah, you're crazy. Yeah, by the way, how serendipitous is it that the people that coincidentally I shouldn't say coincidentally. There's a reason that they were talked to Nobody amongst the people and I'm probably the most pessimistic in the bunch. Nobody said we're nuts There's no way we could do this. Yeah, don't don't even try right everybody got around the table went Yeah, yes exactly. Yeah

Chris Lee: And so we decided to launch this big event and they're all kind of outdoorsy people. And I said, what if we did this through the, because we didn't know who was gonna own the event. And so I said, what if we ran this through our local conservation foundation? Because as the conservation guy here, the county conservation guy, I'm looking at declining budgets and I'm trying to get clever about how can I

Chris Gram: among many other things we didn't know. Yeah.

Chris Lee: How can I generate revenue that doesn't come from the tax base? I kind of see how the trend is going and I got it. I just for years now, I've been trying to figure out, how do I find different revenue sources? And I identified working with our local foundation was going to be a great way to do it, local nonprofit. Because they've got opportunities to do things that we as a public entity do not. And so I said, if we ran it through them? And so I took it to the board of which John was on that board and some others. Including ⁓ one of the board members for Burlington Riverfront Entertainment, was going to be the entertainment Yep provider Matt Brown's board members. She was on the Partners for Conservation Foundation board, too So it's it's funny how you know, like everybody's it's interconnected

Chris Gram: Interconnect yeah, but it should also be said this wasn't the original thought when we were in Matt's office kind of bouncing ideas and this Idea manifested this idea of doing an event in June and growing from there I don't think in the back of your head you weren't thinking ⁓ This is a creative way to fundraise for the partners for car. Yeah, it came Yeah, but this is how like thought streams kind of connect, know, right?

Chris Lee: Yeah. And again, it's like the universe throws you an opportunity. so I saw an opportunity and so I went to everybody and I said, what if we did this through the conservation foundation? And they're all like, yeah, that would be awesome because then proceeds from this could support conservation and parks and outdoor recreation. And there's this big project we want to do on the riverfront. There's this building we want to save. And that's all via this foundation.

Chris Gram: Because I think it should be said at no point that I recall anyway with anybody that was sitting around the table None of this was a money-making endeavor I mean the idea of partners for conservation really came about To the rest of us because there needed to be an operating entity there needed to be somebody who kind of ran the thing fiscal agent Yeah, but it wasn't about hey, let's do this thing and let's make this money and do this now It was literally like that'd be kind of fun. Yeah, I think a lot of people would like that Yeah

Chris Lee: do this cool thing for the community. And ⁓ so bam, there it was. And so ⁓ I think we had our first actual committee meeting in January. And we're like, yeah, let's do this. I ⁓ don't know, I don't even remember how we got on the idea of we're gonna bring in like a big, band. I think was you.

Chris Gram: Sounds about right. I don't know about that.

Chris Lee: Yes, I know it was because I remember that now because you were like, alright, how can we rather than just getting some local bands? How what would it to plus this up?

Chris Gram: ⁓ you're right. Okay. So yes, the Heritage Days, and this is not any kind of knock on anybody because you have to work within the constraints of your budget. You there's only so much money that Burlington Riverfront Entertainment had. Yeah. And there's only so much money that a concert or a free concert on the riverfront is going to make. So all these things kind of dance together. Now I look at things through the lens of tourism. How am going to pull people here? Some of the bands that we had for Heritage Days, were great local draws. They'd bring a couple thousand people down from Burlington and they'd have a lot of fun. But if I wanna pull people from Peoria, if I wanna pull people from Iowa City or Dubuque or Quincy or something like that, has to be a band that people recognize. Okay, I'll take the credit for that. That's fine.

Chris Lee: And so ⁓ somewhere along the way, Matt Brown figured out that ⁓ we should get the band Saliva to come headline our Saturday night. And ⁓ if you were around in the mid 2000s, you've heard the band Saliva, they do this on Click Click Boom and a bunch of others. ⁓

Chris Gram: For everybody watching though, I was definitely around in the mid-2000s. I had no idea who that band was. Yeah. Sure, I'm pretty odd.

Chris Lee: You're a very special case to that But and so we're like, alright, yeah, let's let's get these guys and so we had to raise something like $35,000 it was on a very short deadline and The committee is like, ⁓ yeah. Sure. Well, we'll figure that out And like like nowhere along the way just like you said no nowhere did anybody say ⁓ we can't do this

Chris Gram: Yeah. Not internally. When it should be said that all of these conversations that he's referring to, we're all sitting around a table where there was no alcohol. We're at lunch. We're completely stone cold sober. So internally, everybody's like, yeah, yeah, how do we make that happen? But some of the best things happen when you have a lot of people who their first instinct is, well, how do we make that work? Yeah, because we all know we've met some people who their first instinct is go, well, that's not going to work or you can't do that. Yeah. There none of those people around the table.

Chris Lee: Right. And I think that's probably to our credit a little bit of we recruited the type of people that don't like the word can't. Yeah. That they see the word can't as a four letter word. And that's why I wanted to have this conversation. So for those listening or watching in that, yeah, the story is about a riverfront festival put on, but it's more about the people that came together and the leadership that was brought into the room and this idea that one, we can do something crazy and off the wall. you know, you don't necessarily have to do a banquet. you know, you don't necessarily have to do a banquet. or a bake sale or just sell firewood in a park, what if your local foundation did do a riverfront concert festival and pulled it together in six months? And it's that mindset of, don't tell me what I can't do. Let's have a conversation around how do we get this done? And I really feel like if more of us leaders, whether you're in parks and conservation or in any, in tourism or anything, I really think if we took that mindset more. or a bake sale or just sell firewood in a park, what if your local foundation did do a riverfront concert festival and pulled it together in six months? And it's that mindset of, don't tell me what I can't do. Let's have a conversation around how do we get this done? And I really feel like if more of us leaders, whether you're in parks and conservation or in any, in tourism or anything, I really think if we took that mindset more.

Chris Gram: Right. Right.

Chris Lee: we could be so much more effective delivering our missions. we could be so much more effective delivering our missions. And certainly it worked with this. So we had to raise, think $35,000 in 48 hours because Matt was like, I'm going to have to put a deposit down. That's true. And, uh, and so we, uh, we, I went to the CBB and I asked for money from CBB and I remember those conversations. That was a zoom call. Yeah. And, uh, I remember one of your, one of your board members, um, local guy, big, big community supporter, but he was involved with. An old legacy Riverfront festival, was called steamboat days here in Boeing. was on for I don't know 50 or 60 years. It was a long time before flooding and a bunch of other things dissolved that event in like 2018 and I remember very clearly he said I don't think you guys can pull this off. But I'm going to enjoy watching you try or something like that. Yeah. And then he voted to give us give us I don't remember how much it was.

Chris Gram: almost verbatim. He said that It should be said and I know we're not naming him, but he's a he's a relatively optimistic guy But he's also pragmatic absolutely so he was that's almost verbatim what he said I I seriously doubt that you're gonna be able to do this yeah, but I really I really want

Chris Lee: I it happen. I want to see it happen. And he voted to give us money and I think it was $25,000 that we got from the from CBB that day. then ⁓

Chris Gram: Fast forward by the way, but that same gentleman was within seven feet of the rest of us standing behind a table that last day of the event Slinging beer like you know like his hair was on fire It's funny how these things work. Yeah, yeah

Chris Lee: Yeah, so And turning around to me and saying, this is awesome. And, and so then, uh, exactly. Uh, so then John and Lance, which were on our committee, they were remember this, this, called community development for professionals. And so was a bunch of local business people who got together, formed this group and they exist to invest in the community stuff. Yeah. And so, uh, after we, secured the majority of the money that we need, they came in and they said, all right,

Chris Gram: be wrong.

Chris Lee: ⁓ We talked to the group. They're going to ⁓ They're going to basically promise the rest of it That's right. Well, the one to write the the shortfall go ahead and commit. Yep. And so we did we called Matt We said, all right books saliva And then it was on like we're committed now, right? So yeah

Chris Gram: like underwrite the deficit. I that moment kind of distinctly like, ⁓ crap, this is actually happening. Yeah.

Chris Lee: Yeah, now we've got to pull this off. And again, that perpetual optimism and this whole idea of don't tell me what I can't do because they're like, ⁓ we'll fundraise for it. We'll get the money. I'm like, you guys, like this is just paying the bands. This doesn't even cover all of the other stuff that's going to go on with this event. Like we got a lot of money to make here. And they're all, it'll be fine. We'll get it.

Chris Gram: There's also the money's just a part of the component the rest of it was like logistics and manpower and yeah Literally just how is the thing gonna work had no idea even at the moment that that band was booked Had no idea how it gonna work I want to add something though when you were talking about ⁓ You're kind of making a corollary to leadership. I would couple I agree with that 100 % with what you said I would couple with that don't be afraid of having the big idea

Chris Lee: Yeah, none.

Chris Gram: know shying away from the things that you always do or the things that your organizations always done or your predecessors say that that's the way things have to be don't be afraid of the big idea and Be creative. Yeah, so you put those things in a hopper you get good things

Chris Lee: Yeah, and and yeah that's spot-on with what Hannah Inman said in my in my last episode the CEO of the great outdoors foundation That was one of her key points was just don't be afraid. Yeah, and and I you know, again, there's there's lesson number two, guess is ⁓ You know, don't be afraid like you got these big ideas Everybody there's gonna be a certain percentage of the population that will say ⁓ you can't do that ⁓ we've never done it that way or that that's not how we do things around here. Yep, until somebody does it.

Chris Gram: We tried that 10 years ago, it didn't work. Yeah, sure you did.

Chris Lee: Right. Yeah. You know, I wasn't on that committee at the time. That's right. You know, don't tell me what I can't do. Right. I have grown to find it motivating when people tell me I can't do something. Like, don't tell me what I can't accomplish. To a fault in some capacity. We won't get into that.

Chris Gram: It should be said you've not you don't have one. Oh 100 % success rate. No, no Amy Moiner a for mentioned Amy Moiner who focuses on downtown businesses She has a stat that I don't quite recall, but it's it's astounding how many small businesses Fail within the first three years. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, so you can be creative Don't be afraid of the big idea Don't be afraid of doing something that everybody says you can't do but understand that may not work and that's okay. Yeah And you will learn and you'll grow and the next idea will be even bigger and even more successful.

Chris Lee: And I think those of us in public service probably feel this a lot more than those maybe in the business world because in the business world it's more acceptable to try things to be the bring the entrepreneurial spirit to your organization in government. No, generally not so much. And so this is where I am trying to bridge that gap with ⁓ between the you know, kind of the slow churn of government, the way it works, but then also this entrepreneurial mindset and this ability to kind of be fast and flexible and try new things. That's where the foundation comes in. Okay. Because they, they can do that. You know, they, they can, they can be a little bit more nimble than, than government. You know, if I'm going to do it at the conservation department as part of the public entity, I'm going to have to budget for it, which, know, that's, that's going to have to be done 18 months in advance. you know, there's no nimble stuff there. Exactly. Like, you know, it's not going to be, Hey, we're going to books alive and we're going raise $35,000 in 48 hours. That's not going to happen. But a foundation can

Chris Gram: no nimbleness and

Chris Lee: can do that. get the right people in the room, like, let's do some crazy shit. And here we go. Absolutely. Okay. I can do what I want.

Chris Gram: Wait, you can curse on this podcast? Not too far off from the model of the greater Burlington partnership. The partnership is the, well, it's the umbrella under which the greater Burlington CVB operates along with downtown partners, economic development in the chamber of commerce. We are not the city government. We are not affiliated with the city government. ⁓ I mean, it's all interconnected, but in that way that we're all interconnected. we have. I even know, I don't know how to describe it and I don't want to speak out of turn, but we have an ability to be flexible and modular and ⁓ nimble in a way that governments just can't.

Chris Lee: Exactly. that's, that's why I love this organization, the greater burning partnership. Uh, that's why I love it so much is because it has that ability and it also has that, that, drive and that hunger to, push that envelope a little bit. Um, you know, I mean, to just, have the CVB, you know, have some, some guy, I mean, they all knew who I was, but basically just have some guy walk in and be like, Hey, I need $25,000 because I'm going to try this thing. Uh, and then say, okay, like to some people that's

Chris Gram: Yeah, it is it should also go behind the scenes just so that nobody gets confused. ⁓ I was involved in The formation of Burlington River days, but the the decision to fund River days did not come from me There is a steering committee. There's a board of people right and I don't get a vote So literally I just you know Chris came in made his case and we tried to be as transparent and as ⁓ Accurate as possible and they voted and funded it. Yeah. Yeah

Chris Lee: Yeah, off and running we went. So yeah, so we had six months to pull those things together. We booked the band and started working on all the logistics and we met up and ⁓ so the long and short of it is we pulled it off. So we had to get liability insurance of course. And so we told the insurance people, ⁓ ow, it's our first year, we'll see, I don't know, 5,000 people down there.

Chris Gram: somehow. I do remember that number floating around. Heritage days in September, that's still a little larger than they were used to drawing. That was not a super conservative estimate. Right. It ended up being a super conservative.

Chris Lee: And, It was, yeah. so we came up with these tickets. Oh, I forgot about the boat. Yeah, oh jeez, the boat. Ready to take your leadership to the next level? Join the Next Level Leadership Community at parksandrestoration.com. You'll get practical leadership insights and exclusive invitations to live meetups and trainings. Be part of the movement we're creating. Join the Next Level Leadership Community at parksandrestoration.com.

Chris Gram: So there's this boat.

Chris Lee: There's this boat somewhere somewhere along the way we we had this idea because yeah It's a nonprofit and nonprofits do like raffles and giveaways. Yeah It was okay it was among many so one of the ideas that I had been kind of cultivating in my brain on ways that the foundation could or Just cool things that could happen either and associated with this this event or just that could plus up the foundation Yeah was to give away a boat. And so once this

Chris Gram: Yeah, but I think this was your idea.

Chris Lee: Event started formulating. I'm like man if we did a boat giveaway through this or a bird, you know at the time I was thinking raffle you sell tickets and you draw and yeah and ⁓ So the committee's like yeah. Yeah, we got to do that I was thinking we'd like buy a used John boat on on Facebook marketplace or something, know Take it to a local mechanic make sure it runs good. But then like that'll be our first year We have a couple thousand dollars into ten thousand bucks into it

Chris Gram: Very much in the spirit of River Days. was River Rats. is patched together. is like you said, the original idea of the boat races was just whatever skimmy thing you've got on a trailer.

Chris Lee: Yeah, yeah, just you know, John Boat Beach and that kind of stuff and ⁓ but in typical committee fashion, they're like, ⁓ yeah, let's go buy a brand new John Boat. Yep. And so we did. We're gonna try to get one donated and that didn't work out and so we literally just went to the marina up the road and we're like give us that one right and and they they sold us that one and it was like I don't I don't know what $19,000 I think by the time it was all said and done. Yeah, it cost us and We we rolled that into the ticket sales And it was an online platform And it had to be structured. So this is where you got into the legalities. It could not be a raffle because we wanted to be able to sell chances online and all that kind of stuff. And so we had to navigate all the legalities. I remember at one point I was on the phone with the Department of Criminal Investigation in Iowa to try to make sure we were doing this all on the up and up and we got it, made sure we did.

Chris Gram: This thing called the Iowa Racing and Gaming Commission. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Lee: They've got pretty. They they they are pretty strict about how you construct your raffles and things like that. And if it looks like gambling, they're going to have a say. Yeah. And so we navigated all that and we had this this boat they were going to give away and that came with your ticket purchase. You got a chance to win that boat and all this stuff. And ⁓ people are like, wow, this this this is cool.

Chris Gram: Some people, that was the piggyback pessimism. There was a lot of people, quite a few, were like, there's no way. Or like, are you really doing this? What's the catch? What's the deal?

Chris Lee: Right, yeah. so there's another thing. ⁓ We knew that there was gonna be some of those people. Yep. And ⁓ anytime you do something innovative or new, you're going to get the trolls on socials and online that are gonna come out. Keyboard lawyers. And say shit. ⁓ we decided from day one that we were going to fully embrace that. That we were going to build in this persona for this event that didn't take ourselves too seriously. We're just a of river rats trying to have a good time. so we, on our website, ⁓ which you basically built through Wix, we created a page, you know, it's called The Wall of Hate. And I think that was one of the most popular pages and one of the most popular things that we did.

Chris Gram: through.

Chris Lee: anything that we did was we took all the shitty comments that we got online and we would just push them on the wall of hate. Yep.

Chris Gram: And then slightly make fun of them just a little bit.

Chris Lee: Yeah, you know we could post our own rebuttal if we wanted to ⁓ and what happened was The community saw that and and and saw that we were just embracing our trolls Yep, and like we started running out of things to put on the wall of hate because it just like everybody's like And and it just like

Chris Gram: It kind of diffused ⁓

Chris Lee: I don't know, that built into the persona of this and between that and then the viral videos that we did. ⁓ So if anybody has a chance, just go find Burlington River Days on Facebook and then scroll way back to last year and just watch some of these videos. ⁓ Chris is an absolute marketing genius. No, no, no, the other Chris, the Chris sitting across from me. ⁓ He and I did these videos together and he would.

Chris Gram: referring to yourself in the third person.

Chris Lee: He would edit them up and ⁓ my god, some of them were just absolutely hilarious. And ridiculous. And completely off the wall ridiculous.

Chris Gram: You're right paired with the wall of hate it was very clear from the outset if anybody looked at our content at all they would know they're not taking themselves too seriously we can't really be all that upset with them because they're not gonna care. Right.

Chris Lee: Yeah, exactly. Bitch all you want, these guys don't care. And I think that, I know it fed into people's just enjoyment of seeing this thing come together and then their fidelity to it. People are like, man, Burlington River Day is this thing and I can't wait to see how this is gonna turn out. And so the event rolled around June. whatever 12th through 14th last year or something like that, whatever that, was Father's Day weekend. It was. ⁓ And we got down there, it was a Thursday, Friday, Saturday event, and Thursday we're down there and we had a, ⁓ and it's a Thursday night, right?

Chris Gram: Thursday night, but also the only night where we had, I think, ⁓ exclusively local band. There was one band, whereas the other nights had at least, I think, two. And ⁓ local band, who has a decent draw. I'm not gonna say anything, my brother's in that band. But ⁓ trust me, I've seen them play concerts on the riverfront before. It's not usually a huge draw, not because of the band, it's just a Thursday night. It's on the riverfront, you're not at a bar, it's not like you can come and go, it's a thing. And it's not usually that huge.

Chris Lee: however, and we just people just kept coming yeah and coming and coming and we're like it's Thursday night Thursday and Yeah, and so we were blown away by Thursday night and We knew immediately that we weren't gonna have enough beer tents, right? So we're like, alright guys the guys over there at BRE were like you need a second beer tent for for Friday or you know, people are gonna burn this down and Like we had this they had this VIP area. So if you

Chris Gram: This is ⁓

Chris Lee: It was a free concert. you you could come down to the grounds and see the show, but if you wanted in the VIP area close to the stage, you bought the ticket for that, right?

Chris Gram: And I'm, by the way, I'm very proud, is maybe not the right word, a significant percentage of the people who enjoyed the concerts last year did not pay a dime to listen to the music.

Chris Lee: And that was again, part of this whole personality that we're building into this event was we wanted it to be welcoming and inclusive and like anybody in the community, anybody that comes here wants to go down and experience this thing, just come on down. It's community. Great, yeah, exactly. We're not gonna exclude anybody just because you don't wanna buy a ticket or you don't feel like buying a ticket or you can't afford it. so Thursday was a ⁓ success. ⁓ Way more people than what we thought. And then Friday rolled around again, really big crowd. ⁓

Chris Gram: party.

Chris Lee: We had our VIP area fenced off with plastic snow fence by these stands that were welded together out of conduit. ⁓ And they were welded together by a financial advisor. Lance on our committee is a financial advisor. ⁓

Chris Gram: Held up. and fixed to nothing. I love how you say that, like, can't be handy as a financial advisor. right? Yeah, barely knows what a tool is. Which is not true.

Chris Lee: And no, he's actually a pretty handy guy and he's got a nice shop behind his financial office actually. anybody could have just been like, you know what, this isn't gonna hold me back. But everybody behaved themselves.

Chris Gram: Think about it though in in hindsight not that we didn't know it at the time But it's really beneficial to ad hoc something like that when you don't know what you're doing and you embrace it and you make sure everybody knows that you don't know what you're doing because we could have an event that was held together with snow fence and zip ties yeah, and nobody's second-guess because Yeah, yeah, do we know we don't know anything about exactly?

Chris Lee: nobody. It fit the persona. Yeah, we had no security. My god, there's you know, I think we had a couple police officers just touring the whole area but like we didn't have any like formal security of any sort and so then Saturday rolls around and And we were by this point. We're kind of expecting a pretty decent crowd. Yeah like this is more popular than what we thought it was gonna be and by By the time saliva took the stage

Chris Gram: Yeah, by Friday night we're

Chris Lee: And there was two or three bands ahead of them. time they took the stage, I was beginning to worry that we hadn't created ourselves a Woodstock situation. It was, mean, the crowd was enormous. The porta potties, the few that we had, ⁓ they were running out of toilet paper. People were coming up to me like, there's no toilet paper in the porta potties and the trash cans were overflowing. And the six of us committee members are running around like crazy people trying to only

Chris Gram: Yeah. The only people running the whole event. Six of them. wasn't a mass of volunteers who are cleaning up.

Chris Lee: It was the committee members and their wives and their spouses. That's true and and ⁓ Or just like this. This is the greatest kind of chaos you ever could have. Yes Except there was that little niggling worry in the back of my brain like ⁓ It's gonna take one person getting a little too drunk and this thing's this thing's going off the rails and I heard true It didn't know didn't and it was it was so amazing And it was like it was again the universe smiles on you sometimes ⁓ saliva at the on their their last song, which is of course click click boom, right? They they pause and they invite all the kids up onto the stage. Yes. And so like there's a whole bunch of these kids just come running up on the stage and now they've got a ⁓ dozen nine and 10 year olds just jamming with them up on the stage. And we've got a video of this on on the Facebook page for Berlin, can we read it? And it's in some of our marketing stuff, but ⁓ it was like the perfect ending to just this chaos thing. that that was brought to

Chris Gram: There's a massive humanity in front of them by the way in the moment. I didn't know that happened Yeah, had no idea. Oh, yeah, I was at the time. You know just literally physically I don't know how many hundreds of yards away from the stage so that far away anybody speaks into microphone I have no idea what's going on. Yeah, so I remember seeing the video afterwards going oh kids on stage Where did they find all those kids? That's cool. There's that many kids down here. That's awesome. They're on stage. They're absolutely rocking out Yeah, this is incredible. Yeah, yeah

Chris Lee: I did. So after it's all said and done, uh, we, look at the numbers and we had something to the tune of 12,000 people came down to our river on the course of three days. think that night alone was like 8,000. If I remember right. And, uh, yeah. And we thought we were going to have 5,000 for the entirety of the thing. So suffice to say our insurance rates have gone up this year. Yeah.

Chris Gram: about right. Do also want to say and I don't have the numbers exactly right but we also because we have access to ⁓ visitor tracking data A majority of the people are close to a majority of people didn't come from Burlington West Burlington now We've got some surrounding communities. So we definitely drew regionally. not saying that people drove from Nashville to come right might have been a couple I don't know. Yeah, but ⁓ it was a it was a big

Chris Lee: Yeah, massive tourism impact. So, you know that fits your mission. Yep, and you know you talk about raising awareness for for the local foundation But it also netted the foundation over $20,000. Yes. It did is what it cleared net and then brought to Riverfront Entertainment, which is also a nonprofit. Yep. They sold over 7,000 beers Which netted them a pretty significant profit to you because generally with events the only way they make any money is through is through beer and consensus

Chris Gram: Yeah, let's be real. mean, there were no tickets except for the VIP tickets that, you know, but a vast majority of people didn't buy one of those. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Lee: And it was just, it was one of those things that, like throughout the whole way, it's just, what are we doing? But we're gonna do this.

Chris Gram: I want to tell a brief fun story. the Saturday after Thursday happens, there's a little bit, I'm not going to lie. Thursday was a little bit like, how's this going to work? Is this going to, are we going to pull this off? Or is anybody going to come? Okay. So we get over that Friday is like, okay, this is decent. There's a more nationally known touring act playing. There's a lot of people here. He burns on that fiddle and tears down.

Chris Lee: It was ⁓ Jake Clayton who has played fiddle for the Charlie Daniels band now that Charlie Daniels has gone So he's kind of a nationally recognized country guy and just an incredible fiddle player So he was our Friday night headliner. So Friday night was kind of our country night. Yeah

Chris Gram: But then Saturday rolls around and then we're feeling like I mean we still don't know what Saturday is gonna do But we're more confident that it's gonna you know we have a chance to blow the roof off the place like holy hell What's gonna happen then we give away a bunch of stuff because there's a boatload of prizes. That's right. Yeah, so Due to sound you know the logistics whatnot we literally go into the North Bay of the port and Chris rattles off he gets on the computer platform where some random names are drawn and good boy I don't know how many how many things there's a lot of things

Chris Lee: Bye! There's like 20 or something. Yeah. From things we'd had donated. Yeah.

Chris Gram: From like a free round of putt-putt golf and a pocket knife type thing to a kayak to well a boat and If you would go and tell the story of the person who wins the boat. Yeah

Chris Lee: Full boat, Yeah, so ⁓ the the boat was a it was a low 1660 16 foot John boat. Yep Brand new on a trailer with a 60 horse Mercury on the back of it ready to go. Yeah, I mean just hook the thing up put in there ready go and so we use this online platform to draw and I drew the name and ⁓ It was this gal Heather is her name and ⁓ right. Heather. Hope you're listening. So she's not listening. So she listens, but anyway ⁓

Chris Gram: Hey, Heather.

Chris Lee: We're doing this Facebook Live. And so we drew her name. So it turns out she was sitting at home watching the Facebook Live, watching this happen. She knew she'd bought some tickets and her husband was taking a nap. Yep.

Chris Gram: Having bought some tickets the day before yeah on a whim. ⁓ Let's give it a shot

Chris Lee: Sure, why not? We'll throw our name in that hat and so I'd ⁓ read her name off and I think she just like starts screaming and He comes flying up out of his nap and he's like what just happened bloody murder. She's like we won the boat And so they get dressed they come on down and and and and come get the boat We'd you know did the whole take pictures and stuff like that. Yeah, but what was cool again small community? she is the

Chris Gram: So he changes his underwear.

Chris Lee: I mean not so much now, but she was the little sister of a good friend of mine growing up really. Yeah So her older brother Tim he and I were pretty close going up. He's hanging out together all the time Okay, we'd had together and stuff and ⁓ you know, and this was like 20 25 years ago, know, and so she was kind of the you know The annoying little sister running around and now here she is coming and winning this boat that we just give away and I'm like well this is cool because like, know, know they're kind of an outdoorsy family and stuff and ⁓ And so yeah, it was just, it was different. And it was new, was, dare I say, innovative, but it was, I don't know, it felt just a little bit off the wall, but not so much so that you're like, don't even know where to start.

Chris Gram: new in so many different ways because it wasn't just a concert now the event that Burlington Riverfront Entertainment Puts on in June every year has the carnival there was a carnival element to it. It was kind of pre-existing right? but that and that draws tons of families down there So that's already there right, but it was a concert, but it was also a boat show yeah from ⁓ From the marina it was a boat parade. Yeah, it was the Burlington the River Days Olympics that you mentioned, right?

Chris Lee: Yep.

Chris Gram: This year there's an added component of a barbecue competition. Yeah. So there's all these things that are like, it's not just one thing that you're trying to pull. ⁓ and plus the concerts. Being fronted by and they saw mostly you because you started in the videos, but there were a handful of other people too, none of whom are known for putting on events. None. So there was a whole lot of what the hell's going on here? Who are these people? What are they doing? They're to do what? Yeah. And there's going to be what? Yeah. I don't think people knew what to think.

Chris Lee: Yeah. ⁓ and then... the way... No, they didn't. think that worked into our favor a little bit. And so we're going into year two of Burlington River Days. It's happening June 11 through 13th. And ⁓ this is a little bit of a different kind of episode. But I think there's just so many lessons here that

Chris Gram: They were down there rocking there.

Chris Lee: Park leaders and conservation leaders can take away because we're all a lot of us out there and a lot of you listening are probably supported by a local foundation or you've got a friends group or you wish you had one and I just I wanted to to share this story because One I invite you to come to River days, you know, it's a good marketing aspect for me but to like don't be afraid to just try something off the wall, you know and And I know some people are probably having questions like what's the what's the conservation director doing and you know putting on a riverfront festival and I was very open with with my board and the county board of supervisors. I'm like look this this is consuming a lot of my time. Yep. ⁓ And I could see how the public would be like why is the conservation director working on a riverfront festival that's not really in their wheelhouse is not even in the county it's in the city right. But because it was going to support the local foundation ⁓ and you know both boards recognized that. we need to get innovative with some funding. Today, we don't mind. And it's tying people to outdoor recreation. It was tying people to the river. It was embracing the boating community. ⁓ And so in that respect, that's outdoor recreation. So that does fall within our mission at the conservation department. But it was kind of fringe.

Chris Gram: this

Chris Lee: And I was just texting a friend yesterday, Jeremy, who's normally the cohost on the show, but he's got a new baby at home. And so he's kind of off the show now for a while. But he and I were just texting yesterday and we were kind of riffing on this, whole concept of foundations and the, the episode that I'd just released. And, ⁓ I said, I am, I am growing more and more convinced that the opportunities exist at the fringes. ⁓ and what the great outdoors foundation has done is they have fully embraced the fringe. They're not just the contracts that they have done, like the agreements that they've done with Polk County Conservation, the way they have gotten staff, the way they have solved problems in such an innovative way. For somebody that's just like, well, this is how it's always been, or somebody who's maybe been in it for a long time, they might look at that and be like, that's really kind of, that's kind of toeing the line. But they do it completely on the up and up. And, but if you look at the business world, that's, that's how innovation happens. that's how, that's how new things come to market. That's how new things happen. And that's just accepted in the business world, but it isn't so much in the nonprofit and in the public sphere. And I am, I'm growing more and more convinced that that's where that's, that's where success is going to be. That that's where we're going to find as leaders, as, as parks, people as, tourism people. That's where we're going to find our success. That's where we're going to find better mission delivery. That's where we're going to find new ways of doing things that we hadn't even previously considered. That we're like, ⁓ my God, this opens a whole new way of looking at the world and creating opportunities we didn't know previously existed.

Chris Gram: Let's face it, the obstacles aren't going to stop. The challenges aren't going to stop. It's not really about any particular political climate. I mean, just in general, things may get easier or better, but they may also get harder and worse. And so if you are not embracing the creative, if you're not embracing the innovative, what's the old ⁓ alcoholics anonymous saying? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity. I'm paraphrasing heavily, but something along those lines. Well, if the same way that everybody's been doing things for the last 500 years stops working Do you continue doing it right or if you don't what's the alternative? Yeah. Well, you're gonna have to get creative Yeah, sometimes you're gonna have to you know, push the boundaries maybe a little bit, know Nothing nefarious you be on the up and up you be transparent certainly and don't be afraid of the big idea and being creative Yeah, yeah things will happen

Chris Lee: you may end up having to take a phone call with the Racing and Gaming Commission or the Department of Criminal Investigation to make sure that you are doing it legally and on the open up.

Chris Gram: Honestly and for the right reasons you're always gonna win. Yeah

Chris Lee: Yeah, and and just because you you don't know exactly how it can be done, right? Doesn't mean it can't be right? You know, and I think that's the that's the big takeaway and that's why I wanted to have this conversation about a riverfront festival with a bunch of parks and conservation people that follow this show is because there's a lot of lessons there that I have gleaned and and and Benefits, but you know, I'm certainly going to reap ⁓ as the head of the conservation department through the support that I'm going to get from the foundation that's hosting this thing. And so, just, you know, if I guess I'll close on that rather than drag this out any longer. There's I should probably summarize what those takeaways were, but now I've forgotten all of them. Yeah, whatever. Don't be afraid. Like that. I guess that's just again, this is the be the second episode in a row now that has brought that up, but don't be afraid to. To do the crazy, you know, right? And so don't be afraid to be crazy and come up with this crazy big idea and maybe make it come to life.

Chris Gram: Well, think lesson imparted, but I love the idea that there's a bunch of people watching this or listening to this podcast and next year there are 15 new music festivals run by conservation departments across the state and a bunch of people coming down to the busted cup on May 15th to drink a beer that is completely dedicated to River Days. You like how I just threw that in the end,

Chris Lee: See this this is why Chris is my head of marketing ⁓ Yeah, we'd have any So is he speaking of crazy, yeah So for this year's Burlington River days ⁓ We we've partnered with a local brewery and they're making a custom beer specifically for River days and it's it's called River water Yep, it just rolled off the I don't know the big vat yesterday

Chris Gram: Beer. Yeah. Quite literally.

Chris Lee: Throwing in cans and I tested out and it's quite tasty ⁓ And so again like like here's one of these crazy things like we're gonna have our own beer for this, you know, and it's but it it comes back to Why are we doing this, you know, and that's that's embracing the community it is we could serve a bunch of bush light and and people will be happy to drink the bush light, but we could also serve a Bush light style beer that was made right here in Burlington. Yeah, and and partner with the brewery where they're just going to sell it to us at cost and then all the proceeds from it are going to support the event and by extension the nonprofits that are involved in

Chris Gram: There's another lesson there too. I think because busted cup. Let's be honest. They this is not strange for them. No, they're very innovative themselves This is what they do. Yeah, so What's the saying if you if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. I've heard that one before Well a tie back to this would be if you're in a room with a bunch of people and none of them are creative None of them want to push the boundaries. None of them want to do anything different than you've ever done before Then find a new group of people. Yeah, you know, there are busted cups

Chris Lee: Okay. That's a good one.

Chris Gram: Your city there are there are people who are willing to go. I don't know but let's try to pull it off Yeah, those people exist go find them. Yes

Chris Lee: Exactly bring them into your ecosystem and do something crazy. Yep. All right with that I'm going to end Chris Thanks for having the chat with me. Thanks anybody listening ⁓ If you haven't bought your ticket already to Burlington River days You don't even have to be here to win the pontoon boat that we're giving away this year because you know Boat, of course, like we gotta go bigger and better and so the committee is like we're gonna get a pontoon boat And so now we got a thirty thousand dollar pontoon boat that we're giving away instead of a nineteen thousand dollar John boat And so yes, please buy a ticket or if you want to come down and see some concerts, we'd be happy to have you June 11th through 13th. Burlington river days.com is where you can find that. And if you want to know more about the foundation that's supporting this, it's partners for conservation foundation, partners for conservation foundation.org. Go check that out. I know. Right. Yeah. It's it's kind of a paragraph worth of a URL, but hey. But anyway, thank you all for listening. This has been the parks and restoration podcast. Better leaders, better parks.

Chris Gram: rolls off the tongue.

Chris Lee: is dedicated to you, the Parks and Conservation professional that is out there trying to change the world in big and better ways and we hope you continue to do that with the insights that we share here. Thank you for all you do and take care. This episode was produced by the great team at Layover Productions. Please subscribe wherever you're tuning in and follow Parks and Restoration on Facebook and Instagram. You can connect with us and other outdoor leaders by joining the next level leadership community at parksandrestoration.com.