What happens when an outsider tells Iowa's story? | Filmmaker Charlie Morris | Episode 96

Chris Lee: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Parks and Restoration Podcast. I am your host, Chris Lee. I am joined today by Charlie Morris. Charlie, over the last decade, has worked extensively as an investigative story finder and storyteller in the world of forest and animal conservation. As an award winning filmmaker, director, and editor, he's made four feature length films between 2017 and 2023 and over a hundred short form videos. He's produced two separate podcast arcs as well. He's currently directing the Iowa Prairie Documentary Project, and this is why I wanted to have him on the show, because this is some pretty interesting stuff that he's doing. This is also being released as a podcast, a video and film, and then Substack articles and eventually a book. His specialty is in taking information dense story and making it relatable to the audience, especially in the realm of conservation stories, ⁓ because conservation stories, let's face it, are wrapped tight with information. The challenges is in how to unwind the facts and present them in a way that the audience enjoys, is moved by, and takes action because of. So, Charlie, welcome to the show. Thanks.

Charlie Morris: Chris, I appreciate you having me on your show.

Chris Lee: Yeah. So ⁓ the Iowa Prairie Documentary Project, ⁓ what where where did this originate, I guess? And then here after a while I'll ask you how you got into filmmaking, but I mean, where where did this come from?

Charlie Morris: Well, so ⁓ well, first of all, I want to apologize. I hope you don't hear the noise. There's unfortunately construction happening at the house next to me. So there's a lot of vinyl siding being thrown to the ground. Hopefully that doesn't bother the interview too much. ⁓ so in 2024, ⁓ March of 2024, I moved to the state of Iowa from the East Coast. ⁓ both of my adult children had relocated also from the East Coast to Iowa City. I say they sort of got here on a whim. And then they were like, Dad, we love it here. And then they were like, come visit us for Christmas. So I visited them for Christmas. And then they were like, So our secret plan is we want you to move here. ⁓ and so then I moved here to to be in the same town as my kids. So they were over in Coraville. I'm in Iowa City. ⁓ and I I was planning on I moved here right after I had completed a lot of extensive travel and work on a movie about. The eradication of the great white shark population by the South African government. ⁓ and that movie was really exhausting, ⁓ mentally, physically, emotionally. I was like, I'm never doing documentary work ever again. So I actually came to Iowa City to just like start a peaceful life. I was gonna get a job at Trader Joe's. I was just gonna be so mellow, honestly. I was gonna spend a lot of time in a hammock. And instead, What happened is ⁓ in August of 2024, I had decided to start working on this project. ⁓ the short version is I was starting to get really interested in why everyone was telling me not to swim in the water. Open water distance swimming is one my favorite summer pastimes. And everyone was telling me like I already spent the summer of 2020, this first summer of twenty twenty-four not swimming in the water. And then in 2025, again through the whole summer, like I didn't swim in Lake McBride, which is nearby. And so by August, ⁓ someone handed me a copy of The Swine Republic and said, you know, they they had just been chatting with me about what I used to do before I moved here. And they're like, Well, if you think of doing filmmaking again about conservation, you start with this book right here. And they gave me that book. And ⁓ and then within like a week, I was like, Well. I'm I'm worried about the water quality. I'm worried about the cancer rates. ⁓ my mom had I was my mom's full time live in caregiver ⁓ as she was dying from a rare form of cancer in Virginia. And so cancer is something that I think about a lot. and so I was just like, wow, all these people are getting these like rare forms of cancer. And also what was a great concern is how many children and young people are getting cancer in the state of Iowa. So, like there are these two topics that just really mattered to me a lot. And so I thought, you know, I I actually Googled, I was like, who's making a movie about water quality in Iowa? Because I don't, I don't want to just reproduce what other people are already doing. And so I didn't see any feature-length documentary film projects underway. The last one I saw was America's Lost Landscape, that came out in 2005, I believe, by David O'Shields and Daryl Smith. I hope I have those two names right. ⁓ and so I watched that movie and I was like, well, that's a really great movie. But by now, it's also quite dated. We'd we didn't have the obscene rates of cancer in 2005 that we have now. ⁓ and probably the water quality is even worse now. So ⁓ basically I was just like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And the first call I made was to a guy named Jim LaRue. Who does environmental law and constitutional law here in Iowa City. And so I was just like, okay, this is my starting point. So I hopped on a phone call with him. And when I started this project, I didn't know anything really about Iowa at all. ⁓ I mean, I'm honest, like in the year that I lived here before I started the project, or year and four months, I barely traveled outside of Iowa City. The furthest I went was the Quad Cities in Cedar Rapids. I was just like so ready. I'm serious. I was so ready to sit in a hammock and do nothing and and just work a job, get that Trader Joe's health insurance. And that was it. So anyway, that's my long preamble. That's how I got into this. So

Chris Lee: So ⁓ you mentioned that you did ⁓ this documentary on the Great White Sharks prior to that. What were some of the other ⁓ movies that you had done?

Charlie Morris: Okay, so the probably very first project I got involved with was an associate producer of a movie that can on Amazon. ⁓ it was called Radioactive Veteran. That is not a conservation film or ⁓ a ⁓ Or yeah, it basically it it's about ⁓ the government's we follow I was associate producer of a film of about a guy named Donald Guy. And Donald was taken from Fort Bragg, North Carolina back when the Nevada test site was still active. And what the government would do is it would go to different bases, ⁓ recruit soldiers without telling them what they were being recruited for, take them out to the Nevada test site. Put a dosometer on them along with their gear, tell them to hang out in a trench, and then what they would do is they would test field maneuvers in conjunction with a nuclear test, a bomb blast. So they would test things like what happens when they run straight at the rising mushroom cloud versus what happens if you stay in your foxhole. So they were trying to figure out what's the best way to news use an atomic bomb in conjunction with a ground force attack. And so Donald was one of those guinea pigs. And ⁓ and so it's about what happened to his body over time, where basically his his whole bone structure was just like became like Swiss cheese and his body was just falling apart. And it was about the VA's refusal to acknowledge his injuries. ⁓ so that was the very first project I was involved with. Then I'll try to go faster here. Then I got the first project I got hired to film was a puppies in prison project. ⁓ I think it was Butner County Prison is a medium security prison in North Carolina. suddenly someone hired me to go inside of a medium security prison. I was in a room with about 20 prisoners, 20 puppies, and two civilian dog trainers. And their mission was to teach these prisoners to train these dogs to be adoptable service animals. So these dogs lived with these prisoners 24-7 for like six months. And then they would graduate the dogs. And my job was to film the entire six-month process and then create a graduation video for this organization's donors. So it was like a donor highlight reel to keep the donations going. And so that was really honestly a super scary project. Cause I just I just never been with people who had like, you know, killed people. and you know, breaking and entering, armed robbery, kidnapping. And part of the project was we did one-on-one interviews with a bunch of them. So we did long form, one hour long interviews where they were required to tell their story about how they ended up in jail in prison. So that was really intense. ⁓ and that was probably the first time where I was like, wow, film can humanize people, it can humanize a story, it can help us understand people in a whole different way and understand topics. And so then I just ⁓ but I got my start in conservation though, in terms of conservation filmmaking, because I had always been on and off, not always, that's contradictory. I can't say always and on and off. On and off, I've been an outdoor educator. ⁓ and I've run different guide services. I've run a paddleboard guide service, hiking guide service, mountain biking guide service, rock climbing. etc. I've been a ski instructor, a snowboard instructor. So I love working with people outdoors and I spend a lot of time outside. so I have a deep love and reverence for nature. And so what happened is a local forest that my kids and I played in all the time back in Carborough, North Carolina, the city wanted to pave a trail through this stretch of forest where there was already like a nice little nature natural nature trail in the woods that had been there for like 30 years. And then they were like, well, we want to pave it. We want it to be as wide as a road. We want bathrooms. We want streetlights. We want the whole thing. We want people to be able to just fly down this thing on their on their bicycles. And I was against it. And so I started making a little three to five minute explainer video about the topic for a local nonprofit that was trying to protect the forest. That turned into my first feature length documentary movie, which was about 48 minutes long. ⁓ and then after that, as soon as I was wrapping that up, another person messaged me on Facebook and they're like, Hey, can you do for this forest over in Raleigh what you just did for this forest over in Carborough? So then I made my next movie. Again, I teamed up with the nonprofit, made a movie. and then my other movie about conservation was I featured an eighty year old rock climber. Who had fought to save a portion of Lindville Gorge, which is some people in North Carolina say is like the Grand Canyon of the East Coast. Okay. ⁓ so it was so we went to a bunch of different sites that he had rock climbed at when he was in his twenties and thirties and just talked about conservation. ⁓ and then the last one was the great ⁓ sorry, the great white shark movie, which is called The Last Shark. And that was in an hour, I think an hour and nineteen minutes. And that was a South Africa-centric movie. and now when I did none of the filming, what happened is I basically got handed, I got mailed a hard drive from South Africa, where the original director, ⁓ he had run out of funding. His name's Devette Dutois. Devet had run out of funding and he ended up having to take a job after doing all the filming. He ended up taking the job as an anti-poaching ranger in the Big Five parks, which is like Kruger Park, other parks over there. So basically his job became the original director ended up taking a job where his ⁓ yeah, his mission is to basically hunt and and capture people who are killing the world's last rhinos elephants, things like that. So Devet's a pretty hardcore guy. And He had no budget. Yeah. So I saw a post online that said we're looking for a volunteer video editor who can make a movie for free. And and strange strangely enough, sure I signed up for that. And so I worked on that movie for about a year. And during that time, ⁓ Okay.

Chris Lee: Me up. I I gotta I gotta pause there. Why? Why what? Why did you sign up for that? Like a volunteer film editor. Like that is I've I've done minimal amount of film editing just with this podcast. And like I I it it is a massive sum of work. I can't imagine editing a full length feature film and and and creating a story arc and everything. Like what like why?

Charlie Morris: ⁓ well I'll let's see. I mean, it's an easy answer. I'm just trying to figure out which of the easy answers are are the easiest to talk about. So number one, it was ⁓ DeVett's passion for the project, the fact that he had put in all the work. And then ⁓ the my main contact and my co director was a woman named Frankie Chipperoni. She lives up in Chicago. And actually w weirdly, we have never met in real life. I I've never met any of these people in real life. ⁓ but we coordinated a ton. So I worked with this like internationally distributed team. ⁓ and but I was the sole editor. and so yeah, it was my job to like put it all together. ⁓ but like Frankie and I, we went through the transcripts together, made the selections, but then yeah, the onus of the editing was on me. And yeah, it was it was rough. ⁓ but the reason I signed up was like Frankie. Is super passionate about sharks, like wildly, wildly passionate about shark conservation. Cause really in the beginning, when I she was the first call I made when I responded to the post, I was like, I might be down for this. Like, and she was like, You what? Really? And so I showed her some of the other movies that I'd made and she was like, Okay, ⁓ you're you're hired, whatever that means when it's free. But ⁓ I'd say my main reason is well, number one, you know, the The financial realities cannot be ignored. So, and this gets kind of weird, but I had a close friend named Tiala, and Tiala for years had put me in her will ⁓ against my wishes. But Tiala had some extra money and she just told me one day, she's like, By the way, you're in my will. And I was like, What that's weird. Don't put me in your will. And so after like a couple of years, she finally reduced the amount that she put me in her will. And she's like, okay, I'm reducing it, but that's it. You're in my will. If you're unhappy with it, that's on you. But here's what I suggest: if for some weird reason I die before you do, use it for one of those crazy film projects that you're always taught trying to raise money for that you never have the money for. And so I was like, okay, okay, I can I can live with that. I'll do something like that. I'll donate it or I'll use it for this cause or some new project. So anyway. To our surprise, Tiala got glioblastoma, ⁓ which is brain cancer. And she died within five months of diagnosis, about maybe five, maybe like yeah, about five months. I think she was diagnosed around April and then she died in like November. And so I officiated her funeral. and then I received there's I mean, it's the weirdest check I've ever received. ⁓ but I received a check and and it was enough money. That when I reached out to Frankie, I said, look, it's okay if I'm volunteering because my friend wanted me to spend the money on this type of project. And so pretty much to me, for me, that movie is dedicated to Tiala. It's the only reason I could afford to do it. I'm not, I'm not a trust funder. I've always lived hand to mouth. I've always juggled two or three jobs. and so basically it allowed me to just quit working for anyone else. And I spent almost a year just making that movie. and what I did to keep my costs low was I lived up and down the East Coast and some I did a couple things in the Midwest as well, but I d I got on a site called Trusted House Sitters and I just did house free house sitting gigs at people's houses and I hung out with their dogs and cats. And and I and I'd actually like I knew that I'd be going out of my mind. Editing all the time. I mean, it is a process that makes you sort of insane when you're in the editing phase. And you need like good dogs to hang out with and you need to be near nature. And so I try to pick spots that were near the ocean. So like I pick sites in down in like Tampa near Tampa, Florida, and then Virginia Beach, Virginia. So I tried to pick ocean spots where I could edit. And then walk to the ocean, edit, go back to the ocean. And so I just did things like that. But anyway, ⁓ and I also want to mention that during that time, I also edited, finished, and completed a pod a podcast arc called Salmon Folk Radio. That's a conservation podcast ⁓ about open net salmon farming, which is how we get ninety percent of the salmon that we consume in the US. And ⁓ if you're ever wondering about how your salmon is made. You don't want to know, but you should know. And so I'd recommend listening to that. I didn't send you that in the show notes, but I feel like that's some it's linkable through my main website. ⁓ anyway, ⁓ so I'm sorry, I'm hoping hoping I'm not talking too much, but but by the time I got to Iowa, that's why I was like, I'm never making a movie again because the shark movie was super depressing.

Chris Lee: Yeah, and I'll link to that in the show.

Charlie Morris: Because basically what was happening is the South African government has sort of a secretive program where they're using gill nets to capture and ensnare ⁓ great white sharks. They've been doing this for like 30 years, and most South Africans didn't even know that these were gill nets designed to capture and kill great whites. They thought that these nets out in out off the popular tourist beaches were just there to shield the swimmers, but it's just there to kill great white sharks. And so the population has gotten so low now that it might not be recoverable. They might be going extinct because of this program. There's other issues too that are driving great white shark extinction. But basically, you know, I spent a year daily pondering the fact that this species is going possibly extinct in this area because of one thing. Because the South African government wants to protect tourist dollars. That's it. And that amount of like disgusting greed just ⁓ deeply troubled me. And ⁓ I d you know, it just yeah, got to a point where I was like, I don't want anything to do with this. And then one other aspect that ties back into the Iowa project actually is is there was a distressing aspect, which is when the movie was complete, we did about 20 in-person screenings in South Africa. And so I was in charge of helping organize the screenings making sure all the tech was in place from the USA, which was pretty trick tricky and difficult. And Frankie's job was she was in South Africa and Frankie was touring with the movie and helping with all the QA sessions at the end of each movie. And we were told that if we showed that movie in certain areas and Frankie was there, she could expect to be killed. And I and I know that sounds outlandish, but it it was true. And so there were a lot of places where we couldn't show the movie. And also people recommended like having a bodyguard, ⁓ things like that. So it was my first time ever being like, you know, I mean Frankie and I are messaging each other or doing a video chat and I'm just like, Well, should we make this movie? I don't know if we should make this movie. Like what like what if somebody comes after you while you're there and in in some other city, they decide they want to take you out and people are telling us that might happen. And so it was it was really crazy. And sadly, it also relates to my experience here in Iowa, where the reason about 120 people have decided to stay off the record and and and say, look, I'll only talk to you if you don't tell anyone we talked. I'm not saying that all of them, I mean most of them have not had death threats, but a number of people have experienced death threats. I've had people say to me, You can only come to my house after dark because I can't have my neighbors seeing you coming to my farm and talking to you because of the death threats they've received. ⁓ from farm operators. ⁓ yes. Way more than I ever would have thought. Yeah. Yeah. It is there is a really dark side to what's happening in the state of Iowa, besides just the dark side of people getting cancer. And companies knowing they're selling chemicals that cause cancer. but but yeah, there's it's pretty crazy. So anyway, you you asked the question why though? and I actually have been asked that question a lot. ⁓ why am I doing this type of stuff? Or why would I make that movie for free? ⁓ I just feel like video and movies specifically. can really change things and at least raise a whole lot of awareness in ways that are unique. But I also feel like that depends on who you're talking to, who you're interviewing. I feel like that's what really makes the difference is the power of the people you're talking to is the real magic sauce. But ⁓ and then the only reason I do this work at all is because I I love the planet Earth. And also I do it for my kids because my kids are, you know, they're 25 and 29. And I don't see them feeling hopeful really about the future. ⁓ like they're doing their thing, they're both doing really well. But when I see the world through their eyes, i especially environmentally speaking, it's a pretty grim story that they're looking at. ⁓ I mean, they live in a world where people buy water at the grocery store. Like when I grew it's hard for them to realize that when I grew up, that would have been fiction. Like like you're buying you're buying water. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. And now they live in a state where, you know, ⁓ this isn't tap water I'm drinking. It's treated water. But we're living in a state where the treated water has levels of nitrates that have been scientifically proven to give you cancer. And so I think that has a big effect on on people's sense of hope. When you're like, yep, here I am drinking my cancer water. ⁓ it just makes you wonder who cares and who the people in charge don't seem to care. And ⁓ yeah, so anyway, I do it, I do it for my kids as cliche as that might sound.

Chris Lee: So I I want to posit an observation here in in listening to this. ⁓ I I I wonder if ⁓ and and apologies if this sounds a little psychoanalytical, but ⁓ what I'm hearing in all your stories through through your your films is that it's what you do is a service to to people. So you talked about the the puppies in in prison and y you didn't mention the the process of training the puppies or Or anything like that. What you talked about was how that film humanized the prisoners inside there. And then you talked about the, you know, the the shark film that you did. And and on the surface, it's it's about the sharks and how the the sharks are being eliminated. But you mentioned in there that the citizens of South Africa didn't realize what these nets were doing. And this film gave them it it it brought that awareness to them, but it gave them a voice to to express, hey, look, look what's happening here. We do care about this and and I'm I'm I'm wondering if there's a parallel with what you're doing here in Iowa of you know, we we just a lot of us living here or you know, people think about the Midwest and it's you know it's this pastoral place and you know it's just it's fields of green and everything and it, you know, it's the breadbasket of the world and all this stuff. And and nobody really knows until recently, there has ⁓ it hasn't been part of the modern zeitgeist and this this idea that you know, the the cost of of feeding and fueling the world is measured in human health and in the process. And so I wonder if maybe, you know, you say you're doing it for your kids, but i I think it's much more than that. I think you're speaking for the people that don't otherwise have a voice that are just, you know, they're they're drinking the the water out of the tap and that, you know, and then wondering why they get cancer later in life. Or, you know, the ⁓ and so I I I'm seeing that that kind of common thread in there. And so I'm I'm wondering, do you do you have a kind of an arc that you're that you're planning to take the film or does that kind of come to you as you gather the data and have the interviews and stuff? And like what's been the process so far? You said you've got a hundred and twenty people that refuse to be named or or talk on camera. ⁓ you know, obviously you've got to have some that that are willing to be named, but what kind of what are you hearing? What's been the arc? What's been the process so far? And ⁓ what's what's the timeline going forward?

Charlie Morris: ⁓ well, first of all, I do like your analysis there. That is it is true. That is definitely another reason, but I would say it's only afterwards that I realize that's the reason is to give people a voice. Yeah. I I feel like what happens is, and actually I've been thinking about it like the karst landscape in decora. ⁓ and again, all my knowledge isn't borrowed knowledge. I knew nothing about Iowa. I've only learned all of it through the Awesome people who have agreed to talk to me. So the Karse landscape, think of it in this super basic sense, like Swiss cheese. It's limestone, it's got lots of holes. So when you put something high up on the land, then it and then then it'll filter down and then it comes out ideally really clean at the base of a cliff. And so I've been thinking about recently having just stomped around in ⁓ Bloody Run Creek with a guy named Scott Boylan two weeks ago. Because he was describing how all this works to me as we're standing in this creek. ⁓ I was thinking about like, ⁓ it's sort of like that. Like the the thing that I love the most about working on a project is ⁓ everyone is an expert in their silo. And there's all these silos you a water quality expert, you got a cancer expert, you've got, you know, a prairie restoration expert, you've got a glyphosate expert, you have all these different people, but They're busy being experts in their field. They don't have a lot of time to talk to one another. And so what I love about a project like this is you end up being like the carist landscape where all of these experts are on the top, their ideas filter down, filter down, filter down, and then it comes out in a movie. Or it comes out like through me. Cause even I can't fit a hundred people's perspectives in a whole movie. I can't give them all screen time. But I can sort of take all of their ideas and think, how can I communicate all this cool stuff that they know in in in like a consolidated way? And so it gives them a voice too. And I I think that's just so it's been a really interesting process of like just just learning. And so I think what filmmaking can be

Chris Lee: The you know being new to the state is probably a benefit because you I think you don't have you know the the upbringing here, you're coming at it with with the beginner mindset and you're and you're you're coming at it with a level of ignorance that requires you to ask the questions and to to get to the answers rather than just have the assumptions or or you know the the geographical or institutional knowledge, you know, like you you mentioned Chris Jones. And so a lot of us that live here in Iowa probably recognize that name. He's one of the He is the most outspoken person on Iowa's water quality. He was ⁓ he ran Iowa's water quality ⁓ monitoring program. ⁓ he he worked in Des Moines Waterworks for a while. ⁓ he's a he's a ⁓ water scientist. ⁓ he worked at the at the university in the hydrology unit there at the University of Iowa and then, you know, and then he's written this this wine republic ⁓ and then Bloody Run Creek. ⁓ you know, that's been all over the news here in Iowa, in that like here's this pristine creek up in northeast Iowa. And and Northeast Iowa's very unique in that ⁓ it's it's called the the driftless area. It was it wasn't touched by the last glaciation. ⁓ And the the landforms there are very, very unique. It's only place that has has ⁓ naturally occurring trout populations. ⁓ and and this creek is absolutely pristine. And there is this big battle to keep this this giant cattle operation ⁓ that was going to set up shop right next to it. And it was almost certain that the the it was going to damage the water quality because of the carstopography. Anything that falls on the landscape there is going to end up in the groundwater and it's going to end up into the into the streams and tributaries. And so a lot of us here in the state kind of know and and you know, like, yeah, I you know, I remember that was a big political battle and and stuff, but for a new guy to come in. You've gotta kinda get to the bottom of that and like like why why is that such a big deal? Well, let me tell you car's topography and and so I think there's a huge benefit there. Yeah. And and so yeah, I I that's cool.

Charlie Morris: Yeah, the thing that I'm most excited about this project is that when I interview people, like for example, when Scott Boylan and I were stomping around in the creek, you know, I had my camera going pretty much the whole time. So I'm interviewing him in his wetsuit with his mask and snorkel on his head because he he gets in the water and he assesses water quality by flipping over rocks while he's underwater and looking for all the little critters that should be there. And And so like so when I interview when I put out that interview with Scott, it'll be coming out hopefully in the next two weeks, you know, it's gonna be like forty-five minutes of us in this beautiful setting and him explaining how the karst works, how the water should look, ⁓ making comparisons, looking at wildlife. And again, that so that's forty five minutes. Well, the movie I'm making is ninety minutes long. So only a little bit of that will go in the movie. But I decided early on in this project, I'm gonna release entire interviews. And I'm hoping that people will watch the movie and then go, ⁓ wait, he clearly stated in the movie that full interviews of everyone in the movie are available on his website. And so then you can pick what you want. You can listen to it as a podcast or watch it as a video. And I'm hoping actually, that's really to me like, okay, the movie. Yes, I'm excited about the movie because of the community interaction that'll happen through the movie. through the QA sessions at the end. But what I'm really hoping people will do is go back and watch those full length interviews with all these people that have taken the time to share why they care about the land in Iowa. ⁓ I think that's where it really that's where I feel like a lot of powerful messaging is. Cause those have no real editing at all. I'm not there's no narrative structure to it. It's just this Usually a lifelong Iowan. I mean, that's the unique thing about Iowa, is pretty much every person you meet in Iowa is like a third generation Iowan, at least. And and then I ⁓ I would say my my superpower in this movie project or this just this project at all is being an outsider. My ignorance is my superpower because I am never asking a leading question. I'm asking

Chris Lee: Yeah, yeah, we a lot of them, yeah for sure.

Charlie Morris: the the most basic questions of all. Well like what's glyphosate? Okay. I tr I know, I mean I know it's a chemical, but like what's what does prairie look like? I mean I just started off with the absolute most basic questions driving driving with experts, you know, down a country road and my head's just on a swivel. Was it was that prairie with that weed there? Was that prairie? And they're like, well, I'd have to stop and assess it. I'm like, what about that over there? Is that an oak tree? What is that? And like They were just like, wow, you really know nothing. I'm like, I know nothing. Like so I I really started from scratch, ⁓ in a in a completely genuine way that ⁓ I had no idea there would be so much to learn about Iowa. Yeah. Yeah. And I honestly feel that Iowa is probably the most interesting state I've ever lived in. And I've lived in a lot of really interesting places, including overseas. And ⁓ It's crazy that people think this is flyover country. Like this this place is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Iowa especially has so many different land features and various land forms. I mean, it's it's this amazing place.

Chris Lee: Yeah. Yeah, it really is. ⁓ you know, it makes makes me feel good as a native Iowan here that, you know, that spends a lot of my days, you know, ringing the bell for how amazing this place is and and, you know, our individual communities within this state, ⁓ or, you know, or in this region. that that's I I like hearing that. So what is what is the time ⁓ first off I wanna back up this this concept of of a multimedia approach, this this having podcasts with the full interviews and then using you know, having that in supplement with the with the video ⁓ or the full movie and then, you know, having that supplemented by, you know, a future book or something, like this this multi touch approach, I I I'm gonna find that fascinating. Like I I talk about like choose your adventure, you know, like how deep do you want to go down this rabbit hole, right? Yeah. If you watch this feature length film and you and get this little documentary, but then you can go back and you can listen to the full interviews, like, I mean Yeah, think about some of the documents, like just imagine if if if Ken Burns had a podcast and you know, it could be like, Hey, ⁓ I you know, I did a I did a full length interview with Private Ryan or you know, or whatever. Like, holy smokes. Like I I I'm not I'm not walking away from YouTube for days. Wait, you know, you give me that opportunity, like, ⁓ my God. Yeah, yeah. And so I I think that's a really cool approach. ⁓ I I hope folks value it as as much as I would 'cause I'm You know, I'm I'm looking forward to that. And I will link to your website and and I'm sure there's links to to all this.

Charlie Morris: Yeah, yeah. And and the Substack articles are I don't write them too frequently because I'm just so busy. I mean, this is my full time job now. I like this is and so and I do want to say the only reason again that I can afford to do this is because a person who as far as I know wants to stay off the record just because they don't even live in Iowa, so they're not being threatened by anybody.

Chris Lee: ⁓ Yeah.

Charlie Morris: But ⁓ this person, ⁓ I was put in touch with this person who just is super passionate about Iowa conservation. And they said, Hey, I'm the trustee of a family foundation and and I think I I would like to support your work. And so I received a pretty large check that has helped me be able to stop all other work and just focus on this project entirely. So that's the only reason I can afford to do this at all. And sort of the the the funny part, haha. This is sarcasm I'm using here, is that by the end of November first I'll be out of money, ⁓ the project will be over and I'll be unemployed. So so that will that'll be interesting. But I do I do

Chris Lee: All Trader Joe's I I got a I got a new employee for ya.

Charlie Morris: I do really like the multimedia approach. I've never done it before. and I don't know. I think a lot of it, yeah, I just want there to I want it to be a choose your own adventure for people. So maybe something in this project becomes actionable ⁓ in a way that someone else. ⁓ Who has an expertise I don't have can go, ⁓ I can run with that. ⁓ that really is the whole goal for me, is is make something that there is a direct result because of. I get really I'm a stickler for i information delivery, which I feel like is what most videos do. They deliver information. And I feel like if you craft a narrative really well, you're telling a story. That moves a person to action. That's different than just absorbing information and then swiping on your thing and going, ⁓ what's the next video? What's the next video? And that's why in-person screenings are so important to me, because in South Africa, we really were blown away by how many people wanted to talk about the movie afterwards and how much cultural shifting that translated into. And so now I'm just like, well, if I ever make a movie. It's always gonna be heavy on the in person screenings aspect where I'm there. And again, it's important to have a local community representative there who's like related to the topic in the area. yeah. I don't know if I I answered your question there, but

Chris Lee: Yeah, well I th there's a number of threads I could pull on here. ⁓ so you you said you'll be wrapped up in in November and so

Charlie Morris: September first is when the movie will be done. Okay. And then I'm taking it on a two month tour around the state. I'm trying to do as many in person screenings as I can humanly manage.

Chris Lee: So to what's your process for setting up those screenings? So let's say somebody listening to this would be like, ⁓ man, I I would love to have that screened at my local Capitol Theater in our downtown. ⁓ are are you looking for places to screen it? Do have those lined up? Like, you I'm I'm automatically thinking of

Charlie Morris: Anyone who is interested, I am saying yes to. Okay. Right now I only have eight screenings lined up. I'll do weekdays, I'll do weekends. ⁓ I will say it has been a very difficult process to get screenings lined up. And I actually just wrote a Substack article related to this last night called my title was Five Ways to Stifle Conservation. And and so one of the five examples that I give has been the process of trying to line up screenings. I've never seen anything like it. So the result the process in Iowa has pretty much gone like this. I approach a movie theater and then they say, ⁓ what's the topic of your movie? I'm like, ⁓ it's gonna be about this, you know, conservation and farming practices and water quality. Like, wow, those mean a lot to me. But because this is so political in the state of Iowa, we have to see your movie first, run it through a committee and make sure that it's appropriate for our audience. I've never encountered this. I've been I've been screening movies for 10 years. I've never encountered this anywhere. I've screened movies in France, Canada, South Africa, Australia, ⁓ South America, the USA. I've never had this happen to me. And I'm just like, wow, if people are this afraid of a 90-minute movie with no swearing in it, then why like And the thing is is my movie isn't swearing? No swearing. I mean, the thing is, is the movie isn't even done yet, so I can't even give them a pre screener. but I mean, and so and then I've actually had some theaters, they just looked at my three minute trailer. So I do have a three minute trailer, which is the first three minutes of the movie as well. And just based on that trailer, they said, No, we don't want to screen your movie.

Chris Lee: ⁓ my goodness. I might have to see these three minutes.

Charlie Morris: They're the most innocent three minutes you could ever imagine. ⁓ I mean, so it's it it's just been really just deeply troubling and and depressing and demoralizing to have ⁓ you know, people have that juxtaposition of like, wow, I had relatives that died of cancer. I have friends that farm. I really want to show your movie, but it's just too hot for us. We can't we can't do it. And ⁓ I also want to say though that I've had other theaters like in Okaboji, the Pearson, I think it's called the Pearson Lakes Art Center. I hope I didn't butcher their name. But like as soon as I pitched the idea to them, the director was just like, Wow, we are so happy to show your movie. Yes, let's do this. And I was just like, Whoa. Well, this morning I got an email from a well-known theater that I won't mention the name of. It said no. And then this person is saying, Yeah. I'm so excited. Let's do this. And so it's just, it's just been really interesting. So anyway, I'm even about to do a posting saying, please help me find venues. This is too tiring for me because I have to keep going through this process with each theater where they're just like making me go through all these hoops, and it is a huge time waster. And I'm just like, why aren't people why aren't so I'm trying to reverse the polarity? Where people will reach out to me and go, heard about your movie. We really want to show it. Let's go. The other thing that I think is unique about my process is I have never monetized a film screening. Never. So I don't charge ticket money. I make zero dollars. ⁓ and so if a theater wants to show it or a library wants to show it, or ⁓ any nonprofit group wants to host a screening or whatever, they can charge tickets as a fundraiser. charge for tickets as a fundraiser, but I see zero of those dollars. So it's also a great sell because it's a way for a nonprofit to raise awareness in their area. But yeah, it has been an absolute uphill battle. I thought I would have the two months already locked up. And instead it's just eating up so much of my time. So I'm hoping I can find, you know, I'm just like I said, I want to rever I want have people reaching out to me. And I've even done screenings in people's houses like I remember one time someone was disabled and they were unable to go to theater. They had Parkinson's, but they really wanted to watch the movie. And so like I burned them a copy on a flash drive. And this is this is before I had it on YouTube back then. And I was just like, here. And then they invited a bunch of friends over and they had like a family a friends and family viewing night for the movie. ⁓ so but eventually the movie will go on YouTube after the two month tour is over. That's when I'll put it on YouTube. And then I actually do have interest from groups like the League of Women Voters in Wisconsin has shown an interest and Illinois. And so then I'll look at starting to show it out of the state. A lot of people ask me automatically if I'm doing the film festival circuit. I'm not doing the film festival thing just because I don't feel like film festivals are the venue that creates. the kind of change I'm looking for. I feel like it's the in person screenings with the Q and A's that really in in hyperlocal areas that really create change. And that's with Iowans, you know. I don't feel like I mean I'd be happy to show it to places outside of Iowa, but I feel like it's Iowans that need to fix the problem, you know? So yeah. Sorry if I'm talking too much, but ⁓ yeah. So anyway, yeah, if you want to tell us Google if you

Chris Lee: No, no, it's Okay.

Charlie Morris: If you have ideas, I noticed you mentioned you were thinking of the Capitol Theater. Is that what

Chris Lee: Yeah, so in in Burlington where I'm from, ⁓ here, we have the Capitol Theater downtown and and it shows stuff. In fact, we just had ⁓ Doug Talamy, the author of ⁓ Yeah yeah Nature's Best Hope and and founder of the ⁓ Backyard National Park movement and stuff, we just had him come speak down here and then he's actually in our county conservation ⁓ conference here this fall. But and I'm trying to get him on the podcast. So if anybody knows Doug, tell him to answer his email. But ⁓ but that was organized by our our library director and and a couple others. and so there's like this there's this committee that's formed around here and it's really kind of focused on you know, things like that, like getting the the ⁓ you know, the backyard national park then getting some pollinator plant things going on in the city and and sustainability efforts and ⁓ I I kind of think that our library director kinda likes to stir the pot a little bit. So I ⁓ I might put in touch with her. Great. Brittany's a wonderful person and and ⁓

Charlie Morris: Okay.

Chris Lee: It probably isn't afraid of something like this. ⁓ and then just anybody listening, so you know, a lot of my listeners are are conservation people from around the state. They they work in county conservation, yeah, DNR, ⁓ you know, city and county parks and state parks and stuff like that. ⁓ they they've got an interest in this stuff. They probably know who Chris Jones is, ⁓ you know, probably subscribe to his substack. And so ⁓ and they're you know, they're also likely connected to their community. And so, you know, maybe they know a library director or a or a

Charlie Morris: I think libraries are great screenings, screening locations. Yeah, I'm doing a library in Fairfield. ⁓ and then ⁓ like for example, CCI, which is an organization you might have heard of. They're a longtime conservation group and social action group. ⁓ so they're hosting a screening right there in their building. ⁓ And so, you know, some people are like, Well, even if they're listening to they're like, Well, Charlie wouldn't want to come all the way here. I can only get fifteen people in the room. Yeah, I I will. I'll come for 15 people. ⁓ ⁓ but like I'm also gonna be doing a screening at KHOI, which is a small community station in Ames. ⁓ and they have like a little black box theater that I think only fits like maybe thirty people. And so that's worth it to me to go there for that. So the I sort of have a no venues too small ⁓ approach as long as I can physically make it to all these locations. Mm-hmm. And I I will say can I talk about funding? Yeah. So so I will say though that the first I call it my fine my foundational grant allows me to do the work. But like

Chris Lee: Sure. ⁓

Charlie Morris: The costs involved with traveling for two months all around the state of Iowa, like it all of this is incredibly expensive. And so and so I still do have a GoFundMe and I'm still really trying to raise another twenty thousand dollars, though I know that seems like an astounding amount of money outside the world of filmmaking, but inside the world of filmmaking, ⁓ that that that would be pennies. That's pennies.

Chris Lee: Yeah, I can't imagine.

Charlie Morris: Yeah ⁓ but yeah so it's it's I'm I'm this is considered a micro budget project, even though my overall budget is about fifty thousand dollars. That that is just such ⁓ it it's ⁓ yeah, I'm scraping by, but I can do it for this amount. So anyway, so I still am trying to raise funds to make this all possible. ⁓ but anyway, yeah, so definitely looking for the advantage. It is. It's on it's on the main website at the bottom. There's a link to the GoFundMe. Yeah.

Chris Lee: Yeah. Yeah, I'll I'll be sure to link to that in the show notes. And then ⁓ I'm sure you're on the socials. I saw you on on Facebook. In fact, ⁓ somebody that was how I come with Cross you was you would put up a post that said, you know, are there any podcasters or any podcasts I should be on? And then somebody tagged tagged this one. ⁓ and so that was actually how I stumbled across you in the first place. And ⁓ so I'll be sure to link to that too.

Charlie Morris: Yeah, yeah. And thanks and thank you so much for reaching out. that post that I did resulted in one newspaper reaching out to me and then you reaching out to me. So that was that was pretty great. And and so you know that was a picture, ⁓ a screenshot of me from the movie when I'm lying in the snow. I'm lying in like a foot and a half of snow and I'm filming myself as the snow is coming down like snow globe snow, landing all over my face. And anyway, that's a scene actually out of the movie, so

Chris Lee: Cool. Nice. Yeah. Very cool. All right. So ⁓ Where do people go to ⁓ connect with you?

Charlie Morris: Yeah, probably I think most people connect through the Facebook ⁓ page. I mean, whether it's my personal page or the Iwar Prairie documentary project page on Facebook, that's probably the best place to see updates and things like that. and then ⁓ if if they're the readers, then they can follow the substack. ⁓ that's right, I said where I post most of like just the behind the scenes sort of observations about how things are going. And then ⁓ I do have a YouTube channel. ⁓ that's where you can follow all the YouTube videos right now. It's really just the interviews, but I'm gonna start putting out a lot of behind the scenes content. ⁓ so I'll be posting a lot of cool visuals from all the places that I visited all across the state. it won't necessarily like like just one little fun thing I'm gonna put is like when I went out to the Les Hills Prairie seminar. I decided to ⁓ take some level B service roads, which only makes sense to Iowans. And and out there, those service roads are the whole surface of the bed is made out of lus. And if it's been really dry, then that lus is like it's like brown talcum powder. And so I wasn't thinking and I'm driving down this road and my sunroof is open, all my windows are open.

Chris Lee: ⁓ yeah.

Charlie Morris: And so I decided to like check my GPS and so I suddenly hit the brakes and then the cloud of lust caught up with me and just completely inundated. I mean, I could barely see inside of my car. ⁓ yeah.

Chris Lee: Yeah.

Charlie Morris: Yeah, never. There's so much dust in my car. My dashboard you can still draw with your finger on my dashboard. That's after cleaning it. So ⁓ I'm gonna be posting like fun, just fun moments like that ⁓ from all my journeys across the state.

Chris Lee: So are all of your ⁓ online handles just the Iowa Prairie documentary project?

Charlie Morris: Yeah. Now the movie itself is called Iowa and the Broken Circle. That's the title of the movie, the movie being a production of the Iowa Prairie Documentary Project. Okay. So yeah. And I'm and I'm almost done with filming, which is so exciting in terms of interviewing people. I just have one more trip to Okoboji this weekend. I'll be there for three days. I've been told Okoboji on the fourth of July is quite a sight to see. So That that'll that'll be interesting. Yeah. And then next weekend I'm filming in Nahant Marsh, ⁓ interviewing some folks out there, which I'm really excited. I've never seen Nahant Marsh, but ⁓ I've been told it's quite beautiful. Yes. And then there's just one last interview in Fairfield. and then I'm all done with all interviews, and that's exciting because it has been a sprint.

Chris Lee: Hm, yeah, I bet. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's just editing. Long slog of editing. Yeah.

Charlie Morris: Yeah, then just the long two months of editing. ⁓ so yeah. I do I do just want to say one other thing if I can. Yeah. And that is that the most surprising thing for me has been through all my travels and I meet people. ⁓ I'm a talkative type. I I never meet a stranger. And so whenever I'm talking to people and they ask, Well, where are you coming from? Where are you going? They will never usually have been to the place I'm have been or the place I'm going to. Iowans have a tendency to stay close to home. And so I have met lifelong Iowans who are fourth generation, who live in Des Moines, who have never been to Lake Okeboji, who have never been to Decora. I've met people in Decora who have never been to the Less Hills. And I'm just like, so one of the things I'm really excited about in the movie. It's not it's not just a bad news movie. It's actually a good news movie. ⁓ which is why I'm so frustrated that this some of these theaters are turning it down because one of the things I'm wanting to introduce to the world, not just to Iowans, is how amazing Iowa is. You know, you're gonna see Les Hills, you're gonna see Okeboji, you're gonna see the Driftless region, you're gonna see southern Iowa, like south of Des Moines. ⁓ like there's just so many cool places to see here. ⁓ I I honestly think people will watch the movie and they'll want to travel to go to Iowa. Yeah. I mean and so I'm I'm just so I'm really interested in that aspect too. It's like introduce Iowa to Iowans because I think it does look different from an outsider perspective. So anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there.

Chris Lee: Yeah, well, and and our state tourism office has has discovered that. And they, you know, with through polling and just, you know, feedback that they've gotten is that that's one of the hugest draws to this place is is the natural resources and and the outdoor recreation amenities and the landscapes. And so they've really doubled down on that. And they, you know, they use a lot of that in their in their marketing to to bring people to the state and stuff. And ⁓ so yeah, I mean, and we certainly us in the in the parks and conservation world. Play a big role in that and and you know, we we try to capitalize on that also to attract people to our parks and yeah places like that. But ⁓ I guess I I would have one more question. so ⁓ this show is really focused on ⁓ on leadership for parks and conservation professionals. ⁓ what would be one recommendation you would have for those of in the industry? ⁓ you know. that that operate parks, operate state parks, county parks, ⁓ that that exist to connect people to the outdoors or that exist to conserve the resources that we have, ⁓ you know, whether it's it's ⁓ on public lands or ⁓ on private lands or whatever. What recommendations would you have based on, you know, all the discussions you've had with people around the state ⁓ for leaders in this industry? Ways we could be doing better or things we could be doing different

Charlie Morris: Telling the hard truths about what's happening in Iowa should be a a central part of the mission and shying away from things that have somehow like cancer should not be political. Having water that doesn't having water that is drinkable should not be political. And you shouldn't be afraid to lose face in your community by saying the truth. Well, I mean, so I just think that alignment alignment on things like that, ⁓ should be sort of like uniform across the board, I guess is what I would say. But but otherwise I know that county conservation folks and conservation professionals do a great job. ⁓ I will mention just one other anecdote. but there was ⁓ there was someone that works with ⁓ a conservation group, a nonprofit here in the state of Iowa, ⁓ and they posted ⁓ where they had gone into a local forest with a creek in it and they had tested the water. Just they're like, I'm just gonna test the water today and post the results. So they posted on their organization's Facebook page. And then people were like, Hey, why are you getting political here? Like So they posted the high nitrate people like, Hey, why you wanna be political, bro? Like, don't do that. You know, stay on topic. And they're a conservation group. That's not off topic. And we're in this weird place now. What I've observed is that talking about clean water has somehow become political and like you're trying to make a statement. Yeah, the statement you're making is you've got loved ones that you care about, and you care about people and you care about the environment. And so it's just it's been really surprising to me, But there are interests, moneyed interests that are able to influence how people interact and intersect with conservation that is completely getting in the way of actual conservation work. So it forces people in conservation to work in these really narrow, narrowly defined things. And they're defined by the big money interests. Yeah. Just like farmers are forced to farm in a certain way by big money interests. And that's the thing that frustrates me the most. And I'll just close there is that everyone assumes this is an anti-farming movie and an anti-farming project. And it's not. I'm interviewing farmers. ⁓ because they have so many important things to say. feel like I would love to see things change for farmers so they're not. like shackled to the way that I think most of them don't even want a farm. So so anyway, that's my closing statement, I guess.

Chris Lee: Yeah. Right on. Yeah. Well, ⁓ Charlie, I do ⁓ appreciate that you are kind of dedicating so much of of your life and and sacrificing so much to ⁓ bring this information out there. ⁓ I guess I haven't seen the movie yet, so maybe I should withhold my thanks. Yeah. But but but either way, just the the fact that ⁓ you know this is a passion project and and that you you see a need to

Charlie Morris: That's true, you might hate the movie, but

Chris Lee: to give some people a voice. ⁓ you know, I I I think that's that's pretty profound. ⁓ I you know, I hate that that you bump up against the politics of it, but those of us that work in this world in the in the field of conservation, in the field of parks, we feel that. ⁓ we've been feeling that for a long time. and so, you know, it's it's because a lot of us are public servants, we we we maybe can't speak up the way somebody like you could. Yeah. So in a way you're giving us a voice, possibly. ⁓ so yeah, it ⁓ looking forward to September.

Charlie Morris: Great, great. Well thank you so much, Chris. It's been really great to chat with you.