Leadership Lessons from 100 Episodes

Chris Lee: a conservation department, a parks department, isn't actually about the parks that they build or the the species that they can serve or the the the quality of the water in the creek All of these things are downstream effects of the people that make them possible. Like th there is no conserving species unless you can build the coalitions of people that are willing to do it. There is no conservation effects. There is no parks without the people that agree to invest in them. and so it's really all about people, Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Parks and Restoration Podcast. I am your host, Chris Lee. This is a very special episode. This is episode number 100. I'm joined today by my good buddy and sometimes co host, Jeremy Yost. he was a regular co host there for a while and then decided to start a family and just got a Young kid at home and has been spending some time doing that. And I don't blame you at all, buddy. So it's nice to have you back, man. Good to see ya.

Jeremy: Yeah, thanks for having me back. I'm sure as you know, everyone that's watching the podcast can see the nice bags under my eyes. Having a five month at at home has been an amazing thing to have happen. but the lack of sleep is very real.

Chris Lee: Mm. Yeah, I do not miss those days. And then we're also joined by Telly Van Rickey. She was on the show here a while back. We kind of introduced her. But Telly is a colleague of mine. She works for the Greater Burlington Partnership here in my hometown of Burlington. does some really great things. she is the director of operations for parks and restoration LLC and does a lot of the behind the scenes stuff and has really been amazing at taking this little side venture of mine and turning it into a just it's becoming a a juggernaut. Like just wait till you see some of the people we have coming on the show in the coming months. it's it's super awesome and that's a testament to Telly. So Telly, thanks for joining us. How you doing?

Teli Van Rycke: Thanks, Chris. I'm doing wonderful. I came on just to be behind the scenes and somehow you snuck me in here and got me on the pod. So I will do my best and Jeremy I'm excited to talk with you today. So thank you guys for having me.

Chris Lee: Yeah, absolutely. And and yeah, so so much for behind the scenes because you are gonna take point on this episode. We thought we would turn the tables a little bit on this one and have Telly kind of facilitate a discussion around what we've learned over a hundred episodes and kind of the the pathway of the show and where we're headed and stuff like that. So Telly, I'm just gonna go ahead and hand it over and let you run with this. Just ask us ask us anything and we'll see where this goes.

Teli Van Rycke: Well no pressure, but I guess my first question is really about, Chris, take us back to early days. What was that spark that started as a hobby and at what point did you realize that this was more than just a passion project?

Chris Lee: So originally I was seeing some directors within the world of county conservation, they were retiring. You know, we're seeing that generational turnover. And I wanted to capture some of that institutional knowledge. And I'd reached out to a few of them and said, Hey, you know, will you just sit down and do an interview with me and let me record it? I have no idea what I'll do with it, but I just I want to capture it for posterity. And I don't know, I I got three, four, five, six, seven of these interviews. And the more I did it, the more I was like, Man, this is kind of cool just sitting here talking to interesting people. Like it's some of the insights that I could glean from, you know, these some of these some of these people had 30, 40 years of experience in conservation. And I thought, man, this, this is just fantastic. getting this insight from people. And I was just, I was sitting on the recordings and I thought, you know, I I really should share this in some way. And and I'm a big podcast fan. I've been listening to podcasts for a long, long time. And I thought, you know what? Hell with it. I'm gonna start a podcast. And and so I just kind of jumped into it. Like, I I'll figure it out. And if you go back and listen to early episodes, like the audio sucks. like I remember one time there was one recording I did that I couldn't I couldn't get my my headset to work right, and I had a I think I had a little lapel mic and I had a Bluetooth speaker sitting there and I was playing the audio from I think it was I think it was Tom. Buckley for a director from Lee County. And so I would he his audio was coming through the Bluetooth speaker, and I had a little microphone just like taped to the front of the speaker, capturing his audio. And then I'm talking into my computer. It's just you just make shit up as you go, right? And and so I I started reaching out to some other interesting people, and and I thought, what else can I share that would just help others in this world learn stuff? And so I you know I reached out to like somebody from the Wildlife Diversity Program, and then I reached out to some. directors that are on our legislative team and just trying to one talk to interesting people but then two just share the ideas with the world and and I you know it was it was just kind of a hobby. it was kind of an on and again, off again relationship that I had with the podcast. I would do some episodes, post them and then I'd get tired and wouldn't do it for a while and there'd be big gaps in my posting schedule and I was I don't know, Jeremy, what was a year ish ago that you and I talked and and by then the the podcast had kind of gone through some iterations and I reached out to Jeremy and I'm like, I either gotta kill this thing or I gotta get serious about it. And you know, I think through that conversation he's like, Well, you know what, what if we just what if we did this together? And so that was when he and I started co hosting. And I I really committed to a regular cadence of getting an episode out every two weeks and I've stuck with it ever since and it's kinda gone from there. We can kind of talk about, you know, where it's gone here as of late. But I I think that's I don't know that it ever be I I'm still not sure it's more than a hobby, but I think somewhere along the way I came to the realization that there's real power in this platform here of being able to bring other people's ideas and backgrounds and experiences and also the the passion that I have for leadership and for this profession in the parks and conservation world and and just bring that out to the masses. You know, you you get to see people at conferences and and all that kind of stuff. But here you can post this thing and it reaches who knows where. In fact I I you know I I just got an email last night from this fellow down in Tennessee, Jeremy U and I did a shout out to him here, I don't know, nine months ago or something like that. I got an email back from him here recently. And so you know I found out that Andy down in Tennessee is a regular listener to the show. Andy and I never would have connected

Teli Van Rycke: Wow. That's awesome.

Chris Lee: were it not for the platform like this. And so

Teli Van Rycke: Yeah.

Chris Lee: that's really what it is, is is just wanting to help other professionals in this world, in this industry, parks and conservation, to just be better. And and I get to talk to interesting people in the process.

Teli Van Rycke: Awesome. Well that answers my question. Thank you. All right, Jeremy, I got a question for you. You came on board as this podcast evolved, as Chris alluded to. how would you describe your first impression of what the show was, what the turning point was where you helped define the why for the podcast?

Jeremy: Yeah, so I was trying to remember as, you know, Chris brought this up that we'd be doing this hundredth episode, I was trying to think back to like what was the podcast to begin with, and this week I had a lot of time in the skid loader and so I went back and tried to listen to some of those early episodes. I highly recommend it. Just like Chris said, just bear with the audio that

Chris Lee: Hehehehehe

Teli Van Rycke: Okay.

Jeremy: Those conversations were amazing. Like there is so much institutional knowledge that he was able to get. And, you know, that was such an an awesome place to start with just like getting some of that institutional knowledge and like having it there for anyone to access. and then like Chris said, Chris, do you remember what we were doing? I remember it was in your camper and you're like, I think we're gonna kill this thing. Do you remember what we were together for?

Chris Lee: was that the quail hunt? Was it that long ago?

Jeremy: I think it was it was either the quail hunt or the first fishing trip, I guess. I don't remember. Either way. Yep. Yep.

Chris Lee: I I think it w yeah, it was it was the first Yobros fishing trip out there to Green Valley State Park. Yep.

Jeremy: yeah, that w that was it. You're right. So that was only a few years ago, but we're just sitting in the camper, you know, like we had a few drinks and he just goes, I think I'm gonna kill this thing and I like, No, like you can't. Like this is awesome,

Chris Lee: Yeah.

Jeremy: you know, like getting to do this and he's like, Well, I need like I need a reason to keep going, like something to keep keep me going and I was like, Well, let's just do it together. Like when I used to work with Chris, we would have these long drawn out conversations in his office and I'm like, Let's just record some of those. Like, let's just have a cool conversation and I I have a big passion in leadership and I think it was that section that I was able to help with, like, I I had a lot of fun doing it because it was all based around like the leadership and the leadership through the lens of ecology.

Teli Van Rycke: Awesome. Thank you. And I think that's why we're all here, right? Is because we have a something that we really enjoy leadership in growing. So let's transition a little bit to how this came a little bit more of a professional operation. Chris, for a long time you were handling everything, the emails, social media, booking, behind the scenes, you were a one-man show. looking back, how has your enjoyment of the podcast shifted now that you can focus a little bit more on the conversations?

Chris Lee: Yeah, so that's a great next question because you know, Jeremy nailed it. I I was I was burned out on this thing because the when I first started, I'm like, j yeah, I'll just make a podcast, no big deal. And then you find out just how damn much work these things are. Like booking the guests and and you know, like just imagine we've all tried to schedule meetings or you know, we've all tried to to meet with somebody. so imagine doing that over and over and over for every single guest. Like, hey, are you available at this time? Or or, you know, just, hey, would you be willing to have a conversation with me? Yeah, sure. When do you want to do it? Well, here's seven dates that I've got available. I'm not available on any of those. And then it's, you know, so it's a bunch back and forth. And then you get the thing booked and then you, you know, then something happens. They don't show up. You got to reschedule and then you worry about your audio. And and it was just, my God. It was it was just, it was another job. And I

Jeremy: I even remember how difficult it was just for like you and I to align schedules. Like there'd be like one

Chris Lee: I know, right.

Jeremy: day where it's just like, I'm in a terrible mood, I can't do this tonight or like I'm super

Chris Lee: Yeah.

Jeremy: tired or whatever. Like I can't even imagine

Chris Lee: Yeah.

Jeremy: trying to book guests as well.

Chris Lee: Exactly. And you know, I I it was just it it had become another job. And I I I wasn't seeing the value of it because I couldn't I couldn't put into it the the energy that I that I knew it deserved. And

Teli Van Rycke: Mm-hmm.

Chris Lee: I wasn't getting energy from it. it it like I said, it just it just felt like work and it was it was draining on me. And when Jeremy came along, that was kind of the the energizing that I needed because now one, I get to I I got to talk to my best friend, which I don't get to see a whole lot

Teli Van Rycke: Mm-hmm.

Chris Lee: anymore because we live on opposite ends of the state. But the topics that we were talking about were things that he and I both were infinitely passionate about. And that was really the big shift where the show went from we can talk about kind of the eras the show after a while, you know, like it's the eras tour.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Teli Van Rycke: huh.

Chris Lee: But the That's where the focus really narrowed in on this is a leadership show. This this is this exists to create better leaders in the parks and conservation space. And that was when I started taking more of a business approach to it of okay, well, if if I'm gonna do this thing, I need to I need to approach it as if it's a as if it's a real thing and it's it's deserving of my time. But like to some of the conversations that we've had, I need to build it around my energy. And you know, you hear a lot of people talking about startups and like you just gotta grind, you s you just gotta grind and you know, sleep less and and and work more. And did you really? Yeah.

Teli Van Rycke: I heard that today, by the way. Yeah, at a meeting.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Chris Lee: I just my god, I I I hate that grind culture that is so pervasive. But anyway, that's a whole other subject. And I wasn't gonna do that because if I'm gonna grind, I'm gonna do it for my full-time job. For this, for this side thing, this was going to be a passion project and it was either going to energize me or it wasn't going to exist. And so I noticed I got a little bit more energy by by talking to Jeremy and having some of these leadership con conversations, but I knew at some point I was gonna have to outsource some of the the stuff that were drains on me. And and so I started, you know, Jeremy took over some of the social media because I just hate social media. so he started the he actually started the Facebook page and was doing some of the Instagram while we were co-hosting together. And and then here as of late, I brought you on Telly and talk about a rocket ship, good lord, the stuff that you're doing behind the scenes. And I'm it's it's so different now that I can focus on having the conversations with the interesting people. Like that was the part that I loved so much about it. And to have some help behind me that's that's you know, not behind me, but alongside me, that's doing a lot of that stuff. I I hired an editor just a as a freelancer, was doing a lot of the editing of these, these episodes. and the enjoyment now is through the roof. Like I I'm looking I'm looking more forward to this episode that we're recording right here than than I have to almost any episode because at one, I'm getting Jeremy back on the show. But just looking back on where it's come and where it's possibly headed, it's I'm finding so much more energy in it now and I'm excited about it. we've got some really cool things going on behind the scenes that are coming. and I I really think we're on a great trajectory now and I'm I'm a lot more energized by it than I ever have been.

Jeremy: Han

Teli Van Rycke: Well I think that

Jeremy: and the social media has really been taken off 'cause like I was pretty terrible at it. So it's been awesome

Chris Lee: Yeah.

Jeremy: that, you know, you've come on as the director of operations and taken that over and it seems like it's really doing well from my like removed perspective now.

Teli Van Rycke: Thank you. I mean I just these are things I do in a na a normal day to day basis and so I'm excited that I can use my talents to be able to join those conversations and meet these really cool people, including spending time with you guys. So it's it fills my cup. So

Chris Lee: Yeah. And and that's you know, we've talked about it in other episodes and I I teach it in the in some of the programs that I teach is building work around that energy. Not just around necessarily what you want to accomplish or a task list or anything, but figuring out what it is that energizes you and what fills your cup and then building work around that. And if you know, like that's my approach to to this. If anybody is doing the things that are are inherently just draining on them, then we need to find a way to get that offloaded onto somebody else. And when you can build a team around that, my gosh, like there's you know, because then it just like the it the energy that that that has come from you doing the stuff that I hate doing, but which you get energy from, and then freeing me up to do the stuff that I love doing and gives me energy, like it's it is such an exponential compounding effect on what we're able to accomplish. Like like it's crazy. All right. So I'm gonna pitch one to you, Telly.

Teli Van Rycke: boy.

Chris Lee: all right, so as I noted, you've been a pivotal addition to this venture as the director of operations. And now here you are as an active participant. looking at at our growth, how do you see the collaborative dynamic between the three of us impacting the quality and direction of the show?

Teli Van Rycke: Well, simply put, I think three minds is better than one. We all come with different backgrounds and experiences and we're at different points in our leadership journey. And I think that our listeners could relate when they hear from a combination of us or when we're having conversations, or maybe it's my idea to host someone on the podcast, and then you have an idea to host someone else, and maybe Jeremy does too. And so that really helps bring a diverse group of people for our listeners to hear from and learn from. And so I really think it's that broad perspective that our listeners will get to take advantage of with having three of us around here so on the team.

Chris Lee: It was just earlier this week, Jeremy sent me a text and he's like, Hey, you should get this lady on the show. It was some guest that they had on the prairie farm podcast and and I haven't had a chance to listen to that episode yet, but I'm like, All right, I'm gonna add that to the ever growing list of people that we wanna get on the show. yeah.

Teli Van Rycke: You can send it to me, my list, and that my brain's

Jeremy: Yeah. Yeah. That

Teli Van Rycke: always thinking like that, like who could we get on the show? my gosh, this is a cool person. We we need to talk to them, so I think I'm wired now.

Jeremy: So really the director of

Chris Lee: Yeah.

Jeremy: operations is like, you're gonna be the person to get shit done, so I'll just send stuff to you.

Chris Lee: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. D

Teli Van Rycke: Perfect. I

Chris Lee: don't even talk to me. Yeah. Yeah.

Teli Van Rycke: like to get stuff done. Checking it off my to-do list and having a conversation with the positive outcome, that fills my cup.

Chris Lee: Yeah, yeah.

Teli Van Rycke: Alright, let's see. Jeremy and Chris, looking back at the catalog, what is one hidden gym episode or specific moment that really defined the podcast, what it stands for, even if it wasn't the biggest episode by numbers?

Jeremy: so I think looking back when I was again in the Skid Loader, trying to look back through these, you know, a hundred episodes, like there's so many of the episodes that are really great. I definitely encourage people to go back and listen, but my favorite one was actually way, way back in those, you know, not so great auto quality times, but those conversations are worth listening to. and mine was episode eleven. with Adams County back when they were you were going through the different places that have raised a local tax option. And my favorite part about that goes back to my like personal why at work that my why is to give people the opportunity to connect, re le recreate and learn in a thriving natural system. And that's a place where the people have actually come together and raised money and said like this park is so important to our compu to our community that we like want to see it get to better bigger and better places. and I think that that's one place you can start that is really going to it's just such an an amazing story.

Teli Van Rycke: Awesome. I haven't listened to that one yet because I'm going backwards from where I kind of

Jeremy: Thanks.

Teli Van Rycke: started and then I'm going the other way. So I'll make sure to

Jeremy: Nice.

Teli Van Rycke: jump ahead to that one.

Chris Lee: yeah. That I don't know that I'd recommend that. You might just go back to the early days who come forward 'cause they they get a lot better. Right. Yeah.

Jeremy: J just hit the highlights.

Teli Van Rycke: Okay.

Chris Lee: But I mean the the content was was fantastic. It's just I had no idea what the hell I was doing and and like I I mean several of those were were recorded in in a car because that's the the quietest place I could come up with. and it's just you know, you you figure it out, you know. So for me, so some of the the episodes that I I I mean, you can't really say you have a favorite, you know, it's like saying, What's your favorite kid? but

Teli Van Rycke: Mm-hmm.

Chris Lee: there's there's some that I think I keep referencing I I keep going back to and referencing. And one of them is the interview I did with Ray Delmidge and Jester Park. So he he's actually from around here, but he was a park ranger at Jester Park and he tells the story of How back in the day this park, it's up north of Des Moines, and this park was Like it it was the wild, wild west. there, you know, he said there was regular keg parties, there was biker gangs that would come through, there were no designated campsites, like people would just come through and just park their shit wherever they wanted to, and it was just utter chaos. And the board said, We're gonna clean this up, and Ray, you're gonna lead that charge. And and I don't remember what it was, how many kegs he confiscated, like thirteen or fifteen kegs one weekend that he confiscated. and just, you know, they started started cleaning. Cleaning it up and starting investing into it. And now, I mean, Jester Park is this shining gem of a county park in the state of Iowa. And it's got this incredible multimillion dollar nature center and trail systems, and it's right on the the banks of Sailorville Lake, and it's just this incredible park. And to hear in one man's lifetime. what that was and what it has come to be really exemplifies for me what what the possibilities are when good leadership is brought to bear on parks and conservation. And and and that's absolutely what it was. It was leadership of the department there came in and said, you know, we're gonna we're gonna make something of this. And you know, it was the leadership that raised the the funds for the nature center and and it was leadership that said, you know, we're gonna start focusing in on enforcing the rules and and changing the the nature of this place. And so I I I really like that one. I tell that story quite a bit. the interview with Chad Gravy, that was it's one of the more popular episodes that we have, but He just he brings this different take on natural resource management and this concept of you're not managing the actual species, you're managing the flow of energy. And that's really stuck with me ever since. And I and I use that in a lot of different capacities now in some of my talks and stuff. and so that's really stuck with me. And then here kind of recently, my interview with Nick Askew, the guy that leads the Conservation Careers podcast and and conservation careers, he's from the UK. That talk really centered around I think the title of it is Conservation Needs More Than Conservationists. And it was really around conservation impacts. From people that aren't necessarily trained conservationists and how the industry needs, you know, financial people and it needs people from different backgrounds and different professions to make it all work. And and I think about that more and more as the face of conservation and parks kind of change in light of changing budgets and political climates and stuff, how we can bring in more people that aren't just the traditional wildlife biology degree holders or people that are traditionally trained in natural resource management? You know, what if we what if we could bring in people from the finance industry or from the tech industry? You know, I mean I know we're not even scratching the surface of what technology could potentially do for this industry. And

Teli Van Rycke: Mm.

Chris Lee: so what if we worked closer with with those types? And then just some of the favorite stories from the show come from that episode that I did with the DNR and the MODIS program. And just hearing some of the stories that she tells about how they've tracked migratory birds and how far they've traveled in a short amount of time. Like it just it's mind-boggling and I find it So cool to know that like there's still knowledge that we don't have, that we're still gathering. You know, like we've we've we're kind of coming to this era of like it seems like all the world's knowledge is just instantly available. But then we go out there and we look at some of the species that are even in our front yards and we don't know how the hell they got here. And we don't realize that forty-eight hours ago that bird at my bird feeder was up in Canada. You know, and it's it's it's crazy to think that that raw data is is coming to us with just something as simple as an antenna on top of our maintenance building up at Big Hollow. It's it's pretty cool.

Teli Van Rycke: That is pretty cool. And I can tell it was hard for you to decide which ones to talk about because I'm sure you could go on all day. but

Chris Lee: yeah, for sure.

Teli Van Rycke: let's talk about some of these lessons learned from 100 episodes. I've only been around since episode like 92, so I'm excited to learn from you guys. But you've talked to many different leaders from conservationists to organizational strategists, authors of books and everything in between. What is the single most reoccurring leadership theme that you've noticed across these 100 conversations to either one of you?

Chris Lee: Yeah. Go ahead, Jeremy.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think the the best theme for me is definitely start with why. Like there's so many of these conversations that like relate back to why we do this or why this specific thing. and then I was talking to Ashley the other day that like like this opportunity to be on this Parks and Restoration podcast, like it's made me a student of leadership and there are so many things that you end up these themes that go throughout any way that you learn about leadership and they're very similar themes, but it's really what's gonna connect back to you and what's gonna connect back to your situation. and so some of the the themes that or things that I've taken that have helped me across mine are like back when we talked about SPF two. Do you remember what SPF two stands for? I'm gonna put you on the spot, Chris.

Chris Lee: I do, yeah. Yeah. It

Teli Van Rycke: I do not.

Chris Lee: so it it's the framework for effective recognition and it stands for great now I'm gonna screw this up. It's specific. It is my god, SPF two. So specific, personalized, fast and frequent. All right, yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah, nailed it. I use that I

Teli Van Rycke: Okay.

Jeremy: use that one all the time. that's probably one of my favorite things about leadership because what what gets recognized gets repeated. and as I've gone through my leadership journey, like that's something that I use literally all the time.

Teli Van Rycke: Awesome. What about you?

Chris Lee: Yeah. I so single most recurring leadership theme that I've noticed. So I think what it comes down to and it runs parallel with what I've learned just in my own leadership journey is and I said this last night. So last night we had our our volunteer recognition dinner and I I closed it with this. I said You know, we we always give out our annual report right then. And and I said, you know, there's all these accomplishments listed in this document here. and I kinda highlighted some of the projects. I said, but a conservation department, a parks department, isn't actually about the parks that they build or the the species that they can serve or the the the quality of the water in the creek right there, because we're we're the sites at Star's Cave is by Flint Creek. or or the what that we do. All of these things are downstream effects of the people that make them possible. And and this is kind of parallel with my leadership journey is like and for a lot of us that go into this line of work, we go into it because we want to get away from the people. I went in this line of work because I I you know, I wanted to focus on the species, on the ecosystems, but what you find out is that it's really about people. Like th there is no conserving species unless you can build the coalitions of people that are willing to do it. There is no conservation effects. There is no parks without the people that agree to invest in them. With the and so it's really all about people, as much as you know, that may suck for those that don't want to deal with people. the reality is that, you know, none of the accomplishments that that I've made in my tenure with the Boyne County Conservation or in any part of my career is possible without the the board members that brought the the oversight of the department and approved and the, you know, the supervisors that approved the budgets and the volunteers that come and make the projects happen. And I see that in these discussions that I have here, you You know, the the MODIS program wouldn't have been possible without somebody going and advocating for it at the DNR. the just I see it over and over again. All of the director interviews that I did early on, the conversations almost always went back to the parks and the places they built because of the coalitions of people, the dedicated people that made it possible. And so I think that's that's the biggest learning that I've gotten from all of this is it's it's people. It comes down to people and how do you then you know how how do you cultivate that?

Jeremy: I have to add on to that one too, because that's been something I've found across my journey as well, is like I like my entire like reason for getting into this was always related back to the to the natural areas or the plants or the animals. and now that I've found well, this might be I can't even remember how long it has been since I've been back on the podcast, but this might be podcast official that I'm not the natural areas specialist with Pottawatomi County. So I moved up to lead our natural areas management team in July. And this has become even like bigger now that leading a team of people, you start to understand that it's your team, it's the people that you are doing the work for, and then it's the people that you continue to cultivate those relationships with that allow you to continue to do that work. And one of the biggest points of satisfaction that I've gotten recently. was that we just completed this altogether we're gonna end up clearing about nine acres of trees and it's this connection point where we had remnant prairie above and restored prairie below and it's going to reconnect about four hundred acres of prairie altogether.

Chris Lee: Hmm.

Jeremy: This line of trees was you know right in the middle of it dividing these prairies and My like I always thought that my biggest satisfaction was going to be like seeing those trees go away and the plants come back and that like evolution. But now I've realized that the biggest satisfaction comes from like the people that send pictures of the hills that you can now see and connecting those people back to this thriving natural system. And really like what we do on the team, it connects people back and like It's amazing how much that has evolved from where I started that like it all revolves back to around to people being connected to that.

Teli Van Rycke: I love that and I can completely understand that. I think my favorite part of my job is the people and just having conversations. We had a golf tournament yesterday and it's our annual chamber

Chris Lee: Mm-hmm.

Teli Van Rycke: golf tournament and it was rained out. Everyone's there for two hours, they're all checked in, they're ready to go golfing, they're off work and some of have, you know, popped a beer or two and as soon as the tea time started i it stormed and hellaciously stormed. It was really bad. it just downpourred.

Chris Lee: yeah, it rained. It it was hella rains yesterday, yeah.

Teli Van Rycke: Yeah, everyone was drenched in seconds and tents were flying and it was That part was terrible, but you know, we felt awful about that and everyone was like sending pictures and saying they had a good time and the networking was great and so I I can totally relate. It's all of my job is the best part is the people. So

Chris Lee: Well, and tell you that that's a great point, 'cause like on the surface, like the the event was about a golf tournament, right? And but what you find out is that the event was all about the people gathering. They just use the golf tournament as an excuse to come together.

Teli Van Rycke: Yeah.

Chris Lee: And you know, and so that's the actual impact is is the is the people and and what that term stood for, you it's the fundraiser for the for the chamber and And you know, and the impact that that's going to have. And so yeah, it's it's I I don't know. It i it took me a lot of developing to to see that for for what it is, you know, 'cause it's really easy to get lost in the what that you do. Like, we're putting on a golf tournament, it rained, it's the end of the world. Like, actually no. We people can still, you know, connect over this.

Teli Van Rycke: Yeah, it was pretty great. It was a good learning experience for sure. but you've already talked about your favorite episodes or just some highlights and some things you've learned and some themes. But is there anything that really stood out to you that you learned from one of these interviews that kind of made you change the way you approach your job or leading your teams or anything like that, where you're like, my gosh, I have to stop this immediately or I have to implement this immediately?

Chris Lee: I think one of the things that really stands out as I think back over all of these episodes, and it's not any one moment, but there's kind of a theme, especially when I in the talks that I had with some of the directors early on and and some of the discussions I had early on, was that if you look at a career over the entire length of a career and not just where you stand in that career. It's a different perspective. You're gonna have highs, you're gonna have lows. And those those low points are going to come, but you will come out of them. And I you know, I remember talking to some of these directors and and knowing some of the hell that they went through, you know, just some of the the bureaucratic drama that sometimes you just get to deal with, you know, as a as a director of a conservation department. And then hear them tell the story of, yeah, that sucked, but we came out of it. And then we were able to do these great things. Or, you know, something changed and we got new people on a board and all of a sudden we've got all sorts of support and we're getting projects done or whatever. Or just the satisfaction of enduring through it. And it it gives me a little bit more of an optimistic view because when tough things happen, you know, budgets get cut or or or you know somebody leaves or something goes wrong, it's really easy to get lost in that in the moment. And if you just take one step back and and say, you know, look, in the in the course of the 30 or 40 years that this career is going to be, this is just gonna be one blip in time and we'll get through it and we're just gonna keep on doing the great things that we're doing and It it was just it was a really nice perspective and and allowed me to adopt a little bit more of an optimistic mindset. And I've tried to carry that forward as best I can.

Teli Van Rycke: Awesome. What about you, Jeremy? Anything that you've taken away that's made you change the way you do your job?

Jeremy: Yeah, I can't think of anything like any specific moment, but it's really been the collective learning. especially I I think that one thing that's valuable is as you go through this these catalogue of episodes, there's something that you can take from each one and it relates back to leadership. and the the overarching like theme for me, for myself, has just gone continually learning and continually being a student of leadership. taking what I learned here and applying it to work and then also continuing to to listen and take in other information and just continually try to be the best that I can be. And I did think of one particular episode that I think has really helped me has been the care framework. And so basically it revolves around taking care of yourself. And one thing that has significantly helped me this year is like being able to run on weekends and staying motivated to take care of myself so that I can arrive the best I can be for my people. you know, like we had one day this year where on the weekend I had gone for a long run in a hundred degree weather, and then on Monday we went out and did a bunch of chainsawing. We had a partner work day, and at 11 30, you know, everyone is completely drained. And I was still there to be able to push myself a little bit more. I may have pushed a little too far because I was singing and dancing, trying to motivate, getting people to work some more. I mean I was complete I was completely I was completely

Teli Van Rycke: they probably wanted to smack you, I bet.

Chris Lee: That's called right. That's called delirium.

Jeremy: wrecked at noon, but it did help to to get people out and just another thirty minutes of work.

Teli Van Rycke: I think you'd hit the nail on the head there. Like if you push yourself and then you're gonna be able to push your team more and you're gonna model that behavior that you want from them. So I think that's a good point. All right, Jeremy, back to you again. Coming from your vantage point and kind of stepping away for a little bit to focus on your family. Congratulations again.

Jeremy: Thank you.

Teli Van Rycke: you're welcome. That's exciting. how do you see the parks and restoration identity evolving in the eyes of our listeners compared to where it started?

Jeremy: Yeah, I think I'm extremely excited for the next hundred episodes. I think that you know, we've talked a lot about like the the evolution of where this podcast started, where it was in the middle, and then since I've stepped away and there's been this revital revitalization of the kind of thought behind it into gather other people's stories and perspectives. you know, I still have access to that list of podcast ideas. and I think it's amazing some of the people you have in store. a couple that I'm like really jealous of. I don't know if I can let anything out of the bag, but I'm really looking forward to

Chris Lee: Shh.

Jeremy: the next hundred episodes and especially a couple of the guests that you guys have.

Teli Van Rycke: Well, I can't wait till we have this conversation about on episode 200 and you can talk about we can talk about those things together. So yeah.

Jeremy: Exactly.

Chris Lee: Yeah, for sure.

Teli Van Rycke: Awesome. let's see, let's talk about the road ahead a little bit and beyond the podcast and the future vision. So we aren't just a podcast anymore. When you look about six months to a year down the road, what does success look like for parks and restoration, Chris, and how do we expand our impact to look beyond just our audio feed?

Chris Lee: Yeah, so For those that don't know, Parks and Restoration is is actually it's its own business now. I created Parks and Restoration LLC and the dream for that is that it is a leadership platform for the parks and conservation industry, really. and so yeah, it's it's rooted in a in a podcast, and that's a great way to get information out and to talk to great people and and leaders in the field and and leaders from outside of the field and and really gain. some of that insight but i want it to be so much more than that because i truly believe and this is kind of what we've talked about earlier that you know better leaders better parks and if i can if i can provide a way for those of us that work in parks that work in natural resources that work in the conservation industry and and all of the the jobs and careers that run parallel with that we can have an enormous impact on our landscapes, on our on our agencies, on our communities. And so so what does that look like? Well it's it's I guess it's me going out and doing some of the the speaking and and training that I do, but I'm exploring this idea of doing online trainings. And so can can I build you know online courses or host webinars or offer online resources so that you know someone down in Tennessee can can get this training or this knowledge that we've gleaned through, you know, a hundred episodes as of now, but then who knows how many episodes. And then And then just the shared knowledge and experience from not only guests on the show, but then, you know, just the insight that that folks like you and and Jeremy and I have through just our our interest in leadership, right? And and how do we how do we bring that to bear to impact this industry? And so that that's where this is headed. and that's I think one of the things that I'm most excited about. I I'm I'm working on some things behind the scenes right now that I I'm I'm really jazzed about and I mean like so much so the other day I woke up at 3 50 in the morning and and I kind of lay there in bed and I'm like I I I cannot get out of bed before four o'clock. And so I kind of tossed and turned a little bit at four fifteen. I'm like, hell with it, I'm up. And I got up and for the and for the next two hours I sat working on on some of this stuff. And and I'm just like I'm just that excited about it. You know, and

Jeremy: You you should have just called me 'cause like baby gray probably had me up that morning at four o'clock too. I I I wanna

Chris Lee: Probably. Yeah, really like Jeremy. Hey, what about this idea? Yeah.

Teli Van Rycke: Yep. I'm awake at that time too, so you know.

Jeremy: piggyback on that too, that I'm extremely excited for the the behind the scenes thing this that you're working on right now. Those online resources, you know, we've had conversations and I had a conversation with my team of interns the other day and I had this realization that They like they don't know what they don't know. And so having this online resource that's based around leadership that I can send them to, I'm extremely excited for that because it's just gonna be this this this way for them to learn through this online training and learn what they don't know and come out of it better leaders.

Teli Van Rycke: Jeremy, you talking about your interns makes me think of like kind of an epiphany that I just came to is the fact that like these people who I think some of these people we're talking to are famous people and they're willing to give us their time and you know share their talents and all the information that they've learned with us and for just you know the goodness of their heart because they are passionate about it just like us. And so I think that that's something all of our listeners or all of our guests have in common is that they they want to do the same thing. They want to share this information, they want to help others grow, and so that We think about your interns, and that finally dawned on me. So, how do we make other people realize that too that haven't come to that epiphany yet? So

Jeremy: Exactly.

Chris Lee: Yeah. And and you know, as far as like the the the what's and the hows, I I don't know. I mean it just like when I started this show, I had no idea what I was doing. I still don't have any idea what I'm doing. And in the next endeavors and the next phases of of this endeavor, I I I'm gonna figure it out. Yeah, I mean I'll do what I can to study it and and you know, luckily for me I've got you both of you guys you know, helping me out and and I I can tell you right now, I couldn't I couldn't do this alone. And so I think I all this stuff is only possible because I've got this little team here and maybe the team grows a little bit. but more than anything, I've got the enthusiasm of this team and and the excitement of it. And yeah, it it's gonna be in iterations. You know, we'll put something out there and two years from now we'll look back on it and be like, man, you remember that that first course we put out? God, don't don't sign up for that,

Teli Van Rycke: Mm-hmm.

Chris Lee: you know. But everybody starts somewhere. The the first draft is always shitty. So you know, I'm I'm just gonna keep on grinding along and and try to provide value to the parks and conservation world and we'll see what happens.

Teli Van Rycke: Okay, that brings me to another thought. All right. I'm sorry I'm gonna make you relive this, but if you could speak to

Chris Lee: Mm-hmm.

Teli Van Rycke: the Chris Lee who recorded episode number one, which I have not listened to 'cause I was going the other way and now I'm gonna start with

Chris Lee: Yeah.

Teli Van Rycke: number one. what is one piece of advice that you would give him about building a sustainable, impactful community?

Chris Lee: yeah, so it would be it'd be a couple of things, I guess, but one piece of advice would be follow the energy. this this does not have to be a grind. and I I think too often I felt like I I I I should all over myself, you know? And I I've heard that term, like you know, I'm just I'm shoulding all over myself. so you know, like I sh I should publish another episode. I I I I should send out that that email to the to the email followers. even today I I'm like a month and a half behind getting emails out to people in the community, but A guy can only do so much. Like, you know, this is this is a it's a side gig. you know, my my priority is my family and my and my full time job. and then and then this, and maybe even behind fishing a little bit too, but

Teli Van Rycke: Yeah.

Chris Lee: but I I think I I would say don't don't feel like it is such an obligation. Just focus on creating value to the best that you can and don't let it don't beat yourself up. so much because there there for a time I did, you know, and I was just I was frying myself, thinking, like, God, I I really should post another episode. Like all the professionals say if you're gonna build a following you need to be posting every single week and all this stuff. Like, I don't I don't have time for this, you know. And so I just I would try to give myself a little bit of grace.

Teli Van Rycke: I think those are very wise words. And Jeremy, what would you tell yourself that either started on the podcast or Chris during episode one if you could w what have you learned?

Jeremy: Yeah, yeah, I think I'd piggyback on that and I I heard, let's see, it was on the Six Types of Working Genius podcast the other day that, you know, building on this idea of finding that energy flow and when they were like developing their six types of working genius, they had sent out their assessment to various people and they had someone come back and say, like, I have all six, like I'm I'm great, I'm amazing and their takeaway from that was like, I feel really sorry for you. that, you know, you should only have two types of working genius. And because if you think that you're putting yourself in these other ones that you're doing them all the time, you're a drain on yourself. And

Teli Van Rycke: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: so, you know, that's something that I think about too is to to I think it's really great that you're building a team around yourself now too, because you don't have to do any everything anymore and you can follow your energy flow. And I think that's something that, you know, no matter what pursuit we're in, that's something that we can take away in life too, to to make sure that as much as possible we're following that energy flow, whether it's with people or it's within the natural system.

Teli Van Rycke: I think that's great advice. And I have to ask you because I know what Chris is and I know what mine are. What is your working genius? I

Jeremy: Ha ha.

Teli Van Rycke: am enablement and galvanizing.

Jeremy: I'm a W G, so I love to wander and stay in the clouds with Chris and then I absolutely love bringing a team together around an idea.

Chris Lee: That was that was us singing and dancing at work the other day. That was that was your you're galvanizing in full force right there. Yeah.

Jeremy: Exactly. Yes, yes.

Teli Van Rycke: I'm sure your little one likes that.

Jeremy: He does, yeah. He

Chris Lee: Yeah.

Jeremy: he we like we sing and dance him all the time and we got this little drum set and he was like pounding on the drums and then he just starts like screaming and all I could think was that like has Chris gotten to him already? Is he gonna be into hard rock?

Chris Lee: Yes. All right. None of that slow jam crap that you listen to.

Teli Van Rycke: I don't know how you guys work together then.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Chris Lee: It's it i it's it's a fight in the boat to who who gets to control the Spotify playlist. That's for sure.

Jeremy: It it ri it really is.

Teli Van Rycke: I'm sure it is. Yep. all right. Well I can't believe we've gone through almost a whole episode, but let's talk a little bit about some closing thoughts here. Jeremy, you've made it to the end of a hundred episodes and I wanna stick with the tradition and ask you first, what's one main takeaway or message that you hope people take away from this conversation today?

Jeremy: Yeah. I again back to my interns the other day. you know, I was like, all right, let's go out. And they're like, you're not gonna like close with some s type of like little speech? And I was like, I didn't realize I did that. Thank you. But I

Teli Van Rycke: They humbled you.

Jeremy: I I think I would just go back to you know, going back to these highlights that we brought up today, you know, these episodes that we see as highlights. we'd love to have other people share what they thought were the highlight episodes too. and just, you know, scroll back a little ways and find those episodes and and take a listen to them because the if you go back to them, there might be something else that you're able to pull out and use into the future because, you know, through time and space we all have different perspectives depending on what's happening in our life. And going back and listening to one, you may hear it in a slightly different way. and then again to be really excited for for what's coming next on this podcast. I I can't wait to listen to the next hundred episodes.

Teli Van Rycke: I like that. I like and I'm gonna take your advice and when I go back to up episode one all the way forward now, I'm gonna do that. So thank ya. All right, Chris, your turn. what's one main takeaway for you before we wrap up after a hundred episodes? Tell us your wisdom.

Chris Lee: Yeah, so I think on this one, I'm kinda biggy piggybacking on what what Jeremy said, you know, go back and s and listen to some of the other episodes, you know, just kind of scroll through and read the the the quick descriptions, see what what maybe jumps out at you. oftentimes in the leadership world, we look at things as prescriptive, you know, and so this book comes out and you read the book and you're like, okay, I need to follow that to a T. And what's not actually true is that what works for someone is going to work for you. So, you know, just because we we share these types of frameworks, you know, the SPF two or the care framework or something, doesn't necessarily mean that that's going to apply to you, but maybe there's some nugget in there that does. And so you grab onto that. Or then you go, you know, you try something and you find a bit of it that works and throw out what doesn't. And I think that's the natural way of things. Like we're coming at it from the perspective of natural resource management. The management that we apply on this particular property is going to be different than what we would apply on a property a couple sections over. It's going to be very specific to the ecosystem, to what's there. And I think That's a good parallel with with leadership advice for those of us in this world trying to be better leaders, trying to lead our teams better, is that just because something works for Chris or works for Telly or works for Jeremy doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna work for you, but something in there across the across a hundred episodes or the episodes that are coming, there's gonna be stuff in there that will that will apply to your team, that will apply to your leadership development. And so just grab onto those. And the key is to just get the exposure. You know, listen to this show, listen to other leadership shows, read leadership books, just be a student of leadership and and strive to constantly improve. And that's that's how we're going to create the the next generation of leaders and that's how we're going to impact the resources going forward. So Telly, I'll kick that back to you.

Teli Van Rycke: no.

Chris Lee: you know, being the the the newcomer to this and and kind of seeing it from I'll call it an outsider's perspective. You know, Jeremy and I are both inside the world of of parks and conservation. you know, what what do you see and what would be a takeaway from you?

Teli Van Rycke: Yeah, I'm really gonna kinda build off what you said and what Matt Dodie said in our episode ninety-eight a couple episodes back that in his episode leadership is a privilege, not a rank. And he talks about like really invest in your leadership. It doesn't matter what level you're at, if you're in an entry level position. I didn't realize this. I didn't think that I deserved maybe to be thought of in leadership. And what I've learned is that you can build yourself. And so I always thought that that wasn't the path for me. People were built that way. They were born that way with talents. And no, I think you can build it, you can learn, read those books. I'm reading a book a month for our leadership book club, and I'm just like you said, taking nuggets out of everything. And it's really helping me develop. It's helping with my confidence, it's helping just be more efficient and better in my role. And so my biggest takeaway is build yourself, invest in yourself physically. Like Jeremy said, if you do that, you can perform better for your team, whether it's mentally or physically, and you can model the best practices that you want to see and why wouldn't you just build yourself to be the best version you can for everyone around you including yourself? So yeah.

Chris Lee: Good. I like that. It's a great one to end on. So with that, we are going to wrap up here episode 100. If you're listening to this and you have questions for us and want us to explore a particular topic or have something on your mind that that you'd like to have explored on the show, don't hesitate to reach out to us. You can go to parksandrestoration.com and there's a form on there. You can leave a comment, you can leave a voice note, or you can contact me or telly. just it's Chris at parks and restoration.com. or telly T-E-L-I at parksandrestoration.com and get a hold of us. Jeremy, I'm not gonna give out your personal contact information. You're gonna be in a skid litter anyway, but

Teli Van Rycke: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy: Yeah. You y I'm not the person to get shit done, like we just said, I'm a W G, you know, leave it to them.

Teli Van Rycke: Mm-hmm.

Chris Lee: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so yes, I'd encourage you to reach out to us because that's really the focus that we're headed to in the future is how can we bring more value to you as the person that wants to develop as a leader, just like Telly said, invest in yourself and and grow your abilities to lead your team, to impact the resources in the parks and the communities that you serve. With that, I'm going to sign off. Telly, thanks for joining us. Jeremy, great to see you again. Thanks for being here. Thanks for both of you joining me on this crazy journey that we're all on. And for those listening, thank you for what you do, and we'll talk to you again soon. Take care. Wait, wait, wait. Don't go yet. Don't start that next episode. I've got something for you. The Parks and Restoration Better Meetings Field Guide. See, most meetings just suck. And I'm going to wage war on crappy meetings. Go to parksandrestoration.com, enter your email into the next level leadership community mailing list, and you'll get access to the free PDF download, which is the Better Meetings field guide. It will walk you through what meetings to get rid of, how to make the standing meetings better, and just all around get things done and not just sit there twiddling your thumbs and wondering why. Did I get myself into this? The Better Meetings Field Guide from Parks and Restoration. Go to parksandrestoration.com, join the next level leadership community, get the download. See you at the next episode. Take care.